Religion =/= Social/Political Views

Discussion in 'Rants & Scams' started by Kakashi, Jun 25, 2009.

  1. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2005
    Messages:
    15,018
    Likes Received:
    306
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    In the hearts and minds of us all
    Ratings:
    +306 / 0 / -0
    I'm sick of hearing people against this or against that, just because of their religion. You don't have to follow your religion's stance on any issue. The belief in religion is the belief in the doctrine of that religion.. not the social stances.

    You don't have to be against abortion or against gay marriage. Or anything like that. Why do people have this misconception? You can have your own beliefs. The church has their established views, but why do you hold yourself to that?

    You can have any opinion you want, I don't care. I might debate you, but I'm not going to think you're narrow-minded because of it. If you simply say 'because of my religion' then bs.

    Just what I think.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    14,968
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Arizona
    Ratings:
    +124 / 0 / -0
    Not really trying to argue with you, as I happen to agree to a general extent. However, consider this:

    Some representatives of religion (ministers, etc.) preach that believing in a certain idea damns you to hell.

    Moreover, people brought up in rural areas tend to have less contact with other ways of thinking, even with mass media and especially the internet. When everyone around you thinks/believes the same things that you do, it's very difficult to understand another point of view, or even comprehend HOW another way of thinking can exist. The theoretical example is this (I'm pretty sure I'm screwing up my hazy memories of Plato's Republic VII or whatever atm): imagine that there are men who have lived in a dark cave their entire lives, but have seen shadows of animals, other men, etc. as they pass by a large fire. All they understand is the "shadow" form without having ever seen the real thing. One adventurous man leaves the cave, and brings back news of birds, insects, dogs, etc. and tries to describe it. But despite his best efforts, they are unable to understand what he's trying to tell them. They are unable to even comprehend the IDEA that there are other living, breathing creatures, much less that they have feathers, scales, etc.

    I think I botched this explanation but ice cream calls :<
     
  3. Mem

    Mem Mosh Warrior

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    5,103
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Desperate land
    Ratings:
    +60 / 0 / -0
    you have to be able to put your beliefs aside and think in a different direction^^
     
  4. Raff the Sweetling

    Raff the Sweetling Threadkiller

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,421
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    My own personal hell
    Ratings:
    +46 / 0 / -0
    Religion is used as a cop-out for the weak minded instead of thinking for ones self. (sometimes)
     
  5. Sorcha

    Sorcha Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2004
    Messages:
    5,459
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +77 / 0 / -0
    I think generally those people really are against those things, for (in their mind) good reasons. They follow their holy book, and they believe their interpretation of it is correct. No one believes anything they do not want to believe.

    Plus, you should see what happens to people who disagree with the core group. They are often ostracized as not REALLY christian or whatever. Living in sin, swayed by satan...I've heard many explanations for people disagreeing with the church.
     
  6. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Messages:
    8,797
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    A Pirate city in international waters
    Ratings:
    +192 / 0 / -0
    One of the many reasons I am no longer religious. I had different views...and let's just say...I was not treated kindly for having them...

    My own way serves me best.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2009
  7. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2009
    Messages:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    125
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Crystal Prison (space crime)
    Ratings:
    +162 / 0 / -0
    Ex: There are homosexuals who believe in god.

    Good point. I am a kinda-Roman Catholic, and I sure as hail am not pro-choice and anti-gay. Its like just because you have a certain religion though, your views are expected to be the same, I find it to be kinda sad actually.
     
  8. Jorick

    Jorick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,407
    Likes Received:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Oregon
    Ratings:
    +55 / 0 / -0
    I agree, to a certain extent. As long as they can back up their opinions with things other than "because this book said that's how it should be," then I'll leave it be. But if that's the only reason someone is for or against something, I argue the crap out of them. Well, used to anyways. I've stopped caring enough to debate stupidity. :rolleyes:
     
  9. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    14,968
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Arizona
    Ratings:
    +124 / 0 / -0
    Kay, now that I regrettably have no ice cream, I'll attempt to make a coherent response. Kakashi, since I realize this is a rant, I'm not expect you to read this or whatever, but I feel like adding my two cents.

    In its own way, condemning those people as weak or narrow-minded is in itself a censure. By saying, "These people need to open up their minds," you yourself are closing your own mind; by expecting them to look at things from your perspective (and hopefully agree/change their minds), you're refusing to look at things from their perspective.

    Obviously, no one believes in something that they think is "wrong;" it's human nature to believe in what they perceive as "right." That's why you believe what you do, and why they believe what they do. Unfortunately, the error lies in that when you complain that people are too "close" to their religion or whatever, you're not looking at things from their point of view.

    Let's look at the Christian church as an example. Throughout the centuries, certain activities/ideas/beliefs have been proscribed. These blasphemies denies you grace and redemption, not for one year or even a lifetime, but forever. These blasphemies promise you pain and damnation, not for one year or even a lifetime, but forever. If you stop looking at it from an abstract, impersonal view, and attempt to understand it from a gut-belief view, I think that the first instinct would be overwhelming terror of damnation, and the second overwhelming hope of salvation.

    However, the concept of salvation and damnation has been shared equally among almost every major religion in the world since the dawn of time. The Greeks believed in the Elysian fields and Hades, the Egyptians had Osiris, whatever. The Judeochristians were hardly the first tradition to instate a concept of heaven and hell into their doctrine. What I'm trying to get at here is that salvation/damnation is a human concept and therefore (to a certain extent) is ingrained in each individual, regardless of race, gender, culture, or time.

    It's only been in recent years that people have begun to move away from religion. Only the recent generations have been able to consider damnation as possibly fictional. For whatever reason, the concept of salvation and damnation doesn't have as strong a hold on certain people (mainly urban youth, academically educated people, etc.). These people find it incomprehensible that "people can be so narrow-minded" about controversial topics such as abortion, homosexuality, etc. They don't understand the motivations that drives their opponents. Sure, they understand fear of death, money, sex, power, whatever. But that crucial motivation in religion - the prospect of either damnation or salvation - is a question that's largely been removed from the concerns of the modern urban area.

    Now try putting yourself in a religious person's shoes, who has been told as an infant that to believe counter to the doctrine of his religion is not death, but eternal punishment of a scale that we cannot even conceive, in our limited notions of time and pain alike. Everyone around him has been brought up to share the same beliefs. He is unaware that there is even another way of thinking, or if he is, he has been brought up to perceive it as misguided/evil. Continuing on the metaphor I used above, he is aware that there are these vague "shapes" out there, but unable to comprehend the concept of "flight," "paws," "feathers," "swimming." He knows only the shadowy forms. Is it any wonder that he believes the way that he does?

    In turn, the "liberal-minded" suffer from their own cave. They, too, see only the vague "shapes" of other people's beliefs, unable to comprehend of a life that is so utterly alien that they are simply unable to imagine even its existence.

    Each condemns the other as "stupid," "misguided," "wrong," whatever. Each believes that their way is the "right' one. Which is the "truth"?

    Naturally, that depends on your perspective, and which cave you're in.

    But your cave isn't the only one.


    Also, before someone asks: my cave is the one with the dragon in it. :( It's very angry and very hungry and I think I'm the only one left alive to be eaten.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2009