Reading the series now

Discussion in 'A Song of Ice and Fire' started by Phoenixvenus, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. Phoenixvenus

    Phoenixvenus New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    hi all :)

    I finished A Game of Thrones and am halfway through Clash of Kings. I've become immediately addicted and need to talk about this book!!!

    I tried curbing my enthusiasm by reading around the forum here. BAD IDEA! too many spoilers =P

    at this point im wondering what are tyrion's motives for all of his scheming at kings landing. he mentioned at one point working for justice, but whose justice is that? lannister justice? his family members pretty much treat him like sh*t.

    When tyrion mentioned he knew about cersei's informer, was he actually talking about varys? i mean he told varys himself that if cersei found out (about myrcella) he'd known it was him. so why him and not littlefinger.

    I find myself enjoying Daenerys' & Tyrions chapters most.

    Who were you alls favs at the end of book one? did it end up changing as the books progressed?
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2011
  2. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,374
    Likes Received:
    230
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Ireland
    Ratings:
    +230 / 0 / -0
    I doubt that eBook is legal so I'd suggest removing the link. The mods won't condone abuse of copyright.

    But welcome to the forum anyway :).
    That's up for debate. I do think Tyrion has a certain amount of family loyalty in spite of himself; he's certainly loyal to Jaime and I feel that much of his ACOK storyline involves him trying to gain his father's respect. I also think Tyrion enjoyed scheming for its own sake as it's a game he can play on a level playing field with others, unlike swordplay. It's an interesting topic in itself actually.

    I can't recall this offhand (I don't have the books with me at the moment). I think the implication was that it was Pycelle, but I could be wrong.

    Oh yes. Without wanting to get too spoilerish, the characters do develop a lot as the books progress and I think everyone's favourites alter quite a bit. Tyrion has always been one of my favourites, I love Catelyn's POV and I am by now an avid Sansa defender, although I wasn't particularly fond of her at first. I won't mention my absolute favourite as it's something of a spoiler.
     
  3. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    14,968
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Arizona
    Ratings:
    +124 / 0 / -0
    Welcome to the forums! :)



    From my memories, it was implied that Pycelle was indeed the one whispering to Cersei, not Varys or Littlefinger. There's an entire Tyrion chapter setting it up, and another chapter dealing with the aftermath.

    As for Tyrion's motives--give it a bit longer; I think that you'll find your assessment of him changing as the books progress. Once you're past AFFC, I'd also recommend going to the Westeros forums, as they have a HUGE community, and are always up for discussion on ASoIaF.

    At the end of book one: my favorite storylines were Dany, Jon, Arya, Bran. (Keep in mind that this was five years ago and I was only 15 at the time.) I hated Sansa and Cat, thought Ned was boring, and that Tyrion was funny. My assessment remained more or less the same throughout CoK (hated Theon), but my all-time favorite PoV was introduced in SoS (if I'm not mistaken, Lya and I are most likely talking about the same character--does it revolve around the JDF vs. JPAW? ;)).

    As I've grown older, however, my tastes and assessments have radically changed. I now enjoy all the PoV characters for being well-written, and do enjoy certain storylines (such as Dany's for dragons, Jon because the Wall is cool), but I hate those two characters. I now can admit that Arya has some pretty messed-up issues but I still really like her. I like Bran a lot too, respect Ned/Cat, and... I hate to admit this, but I have Sansa-itis too. I still think she's an idiot and, by the logic of "the story", deserves to die--but if you take her actions into context outside of "the story," they are respectable, admirable, but unfortunately anti-feminist. (Hopefully this'll change in the future.)
     
  4. bloodfiredeath

    bloodfiredeath Die by the Sword

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Messages:
    4,563
    Likes Received:
    89
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +92 / 0 / -0
    I feel the same, but understand that she was a "woman of her times" so to speak!!
    I know a lot of females like to see the feminist characters, but by the standards of society in which the series is set, she is pretty much straight down the line...naive and too trusting perhaps, but indicative of the time.
    Ok...now I am standing back to await the flaming!! :p
     
  5. Phoenixvenus

    Phoenixvenus New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Thanks for the welcomes Lyanna and Liadan!

    *takes down links and runs from mods* sorry i didn't realize.. i don't condone illegal copying, i have an actual copy of got =P

    As for the talk of sansa, i'm kind of warm to her... Even though shes extremely daft and annoying, she garners sympathy for me as a reader. it was an interesting way for martin to take a character. her naivety and desire to appear courtley is completely backwards (although ingrained in her through the society of the times) but makes you really hate joff & cersei for taking advantage and leaves room for her growth. unfortunately, as of yet she doesn't seem to be learning from her own mistakes. still talking about wanting some knight to come save her.. i do like how her POV is attuned to visual aestethics and attire. Makes for good imagery.

    something i really enjoy about martins characters is the ever changing balance of power. theres many who seem to be acting out of circumstance (and you are rooting for them to come into their own power,) and then there are the ones that already have power and are acting out of their lust for more. makes for a great dynamic. I hope they will have more chapters with jamie and cersei as the books go on.


    Arya has issues? everyone in this story has issues tbh! Extreme behaviors arisen from extreme circumstances. I read the chapter where Arya went to save Gendry and i admire her balls and loyalty. (this chapter had me cracking up btw with the whole yeild thing.)

    I think bran will later on have a major part in the story. they seem to be setting up now.. the boy that sees all but takes no part. i think they are hinting at something where bran can tap into his wolfs mind and see through its eyes... the "dreams" he's having..

    maybe i will find out when i read more.. I feel like there is more driving his actions than yet shown.. he is a very interesting character. It does make sense to me now that hed be talking about Pycelle.

    off to read more now.. nice talking to you guys :)
     
  6. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,374
    Likes Received:
    230
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Ireland
    Ratings:
    +230 / 0 / -0
    Nice talking to you too, now go read! :)
    Why, BFD, you do realise that it's a little anti-feminist to assume that women can't respond to a rational argument without flaming, right? :p (J/k, you make a valid point.) Obviously growing up in a sexist society would impact the way women act, although I'm not sure I agree with the idea that such a society would necessarily make women more naïve and trusting. I think that's more to do with Sansa's age; after all, her dream of marrying her prince and living happily ever after is no more naïve than Bran's dream of becoming a famous knight like the Sword of the Morning. It's just that Sansa's naïvety had more tragic consequences. Adult women like Cersei and Catelyn may live in a sexist society, but they're far more realistic about their role in that society. (Well, Cersei is only sometimes more realistic ;))

    I don't personally consider Sansa anti-feminist either, mainly because unlike Lia I don't think she's stupid. She is undeniably naïve, particularly in AGOT, but she does learn from her mistakes. I love her moments of rebellion, such as the scene in AGOT where she considers throwing Joffrey off the tower. I remember coming across a fairly acute observation on the subject once (either here or on Westeros, not sure where) which pointed out that while Sansa would have never survived Arya's storyline, Arya would equally well have got herself killed if she had been in Sansa's position. Sansa is forced to be passive because she's walking a tightrope to survive but she never accepts the position the Lannisters force her into, it's just that her methods of resistance are less direct than her sister's.

    That being said, I don't like Sansa because she's a feminist heroine or anything; she isn't that either. She's one of the most compelling characters to me because her flaws are so realistic and yet have such horrific consequences. I find it easier to empathise with her than with Arya because while Arya's storyline involves more direct risk, Sansa has to deal with more complex and intimate dangers.

    Incidentally, I do quite like Arya too. But that's a different post :).
     
  7. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    14,968
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Arizona
    Ratings:
    +124 / 0 / -0
    In ADWD news, GRRM seems to be making a lot of progress on his "krakens." (Figured I had to post that SOMEWHERE.)

    Because I am sick and not feeling well, I'm going to keep this post fairly short (apologies if it's incoherent because of it).

    I consider Sansa to be stupid by the logic of the story because she chose to sell out her family for Cersei/Joffrey. While she can't have known how psychopathic the two of them were, she did nonetheless knowingly betray her family because she wanted to stay in KL (at least as far as I recall; if someone can refute me, then one of my biggest reasons to label her as "stupid" goes flying out the window :(). Obviously, there are a number of factors that mitigate this: she's young, naive, trusting, innocent, etc. etc. but the fact of the matter was that she betrayed a secret that she wasn't supposed to.

    I consider Sansa to be an anti-feminist character (in comparison to Catelyn, who I think is quite feminist "for her time") because she doesn't choose to do anything. Sorry if my post came off as "I think Sansa sucks because she's not as cool as Arya." On the contrary, I enjoy her PoV chapters and the interactions she participates in.

    However, I don't agree that her resistance is passive; I argue that her resistance is purely mental/emotional in nature. She's a very sweet girl, yes, but she rarely does anything on her own that someone doesn't instruct her to do first. That being said, however, there's a scene in KL where Cersei, Ilyn Payne, and all the castle's ladies are involved (not going to explain further, as I believe the OP hasn't gotten there yet, but hopefully you know what I'm talking about). I think that's one of Sansa's best scenes, and it does show her positive qualities in a great light.

    While I'll concede the point that Sansa really doesn't have much of a choice to do anything else (she's surrounded by Lannisters in KL, after all) the primary problem I have with her is that she doesn't even try to think of other things to do or say, other than to placate Joffrey and ensure her own survival. However, I'll also say that I think Sansa's gotten gradually smarter as the series progresses. IMO, GoT's the only book where she's actually had choices and royally messed it up; from CoK onwards, she's just become a powerless character where things happen to her.
     
  8. Phoenixvenus

    Phoenixvenus New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    omg poor bran =( =( =(


    i feel lucky that i got into the series now, with the show and the new books coming out soon!!

    Arya is becoming one of my fav characters to read about, i don't care if she wants to kill everyone.
     
  9. Phoenixvenus

    Phoenixvenus New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    was anyone else underwhelmed by joffrey's ending?

    after the butchery of robb and catelyn, i thought he deserved something worse.. some massacre / slow torturous pain and humiliation. :devilspin

    jamie is my new fav =)

    im still confused about sansa though.. i find myself very interested in her chapters, especially the ones with tyrion, but she makes such frustrating decisions!!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2011