Palestine & Israel

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Kakashi, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2005
    Messages:
    15,018
    Likes Received:
    306
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    In the hearts and minds of us all
    Ratings:
    +306 / 0 / -0
    I'm far from an expert on the subject... and I'm sure this debate is going to get out of hand after a while :p

    But I just watched 'Paradise Now', has anyone seen it. It's a Palestinian movie, so I'm sure it's a little biased. (But I live in a city with a very high demographic of Jews, so I'm sure what I hear on more day-to-day basis is biased as well.) But the movie just got to me more than ever before about how Israel is the agressor who tries to play the victim.

    I also heard recently that the US vetoed a resolution that would have stopped Israel from making more settlements, which kind of upset me :p

    But then again, Jewish people say that the Palestinians are just terrorists and don't deserve any sort of state of their own.

    What are your thoughts? What do you think the best solution to the problem is? I'd be interested in being more educated on the subject so if you have anything to share, I'd appreciate that as well.
     
  2. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    7,802
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    VDNH Station,Moscow
    Ratings:
    +97 / 0 / -0
    Re: Palestine

    Like I've said before in this forum,I think that the best solution would be for Israel to get back to the pre-1967 borders and for the international community to finally allow and help Palestine to create and normal and functioning country with a normal and legitimate army,abolishing and disbanding all the militias.

    I've seen a bit of the movie I think it was after the second half or something.But I've also seen "Divine Intervention" and a lot of documentaries about the whole Palestinian problem.


    USA will always veto stuff that Israel doesn't like.And I say that's kind of one-sided...
     
  3. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,784
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Not in Amsterdam :)
    Ratings:
    +189 / 0 / -0
    Re: Palestine

    I think rational debate about the ongoing civil war in Israel and/or Palestine is futile. No one seems able anymore to look at the conflict in a clear way.

    The only thing I want to say is that it is baffling to see how the UN hasn't interfered. It can't interfere because of the global political landscape. Still, seeing the scale of this conflict, the passiveness of the UN is bizarre.
     
  4. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    7,802
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    VDNH Station,Moscow
    Ratings:
    +97 / 0 / -0
    Re: Palestine

    The U.N. can't interfere because the West is almost entirely pro-Israeli when it comes to governments and lobbies.And if they are not,the U.S. pushes them to refuse support for a solution.If they wanted peace,peace could have come in a matter of minutes.But Israel DOES NOT remove the settlements and army posts from West Bank and does not accept the withdrawal to the pre-1967 borders to let the Palestinians have more space and more control on their own matters.

    On the part of the Palestinians as long as Israel keeps pushing them,they think they should continue a resistance war against the occupation but they should instead disband all the militias and organizations and try to create their own national army,something better than the Palestinian Security Force.And the world should help them create a normal and fully functioning State with their own currency,laws,army,borders and NO interference from Israel.
     
  5. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,705
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    West Australia
    Ratings:
    +186 / 1 / -0
    Re: Palestine

    I can't see peace ever happening between two peoples who have hated each other for so long. There are lots of peopleon both sides who just want a normal quiet peaceful life, but they are counteracted by radical elements who want the other side not to live in peace, but to disappear entirely. If not off the face of the earth, then at least off "our land."

    And of course, if both sides have god on their side, and god says that this land belongs to them, why would either side back down?

    Never gonna happen. Even if Palestine got given its own territory, human nature being what it is, I'm sure there'd still be haters firing rockets into Israel, which would lead to to Israeli army firing back etc etc...
     
  6. ProcTau

    ProcTau New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    NC
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Re: Palestine

    I agree that the borders need to go back to pre 1967. But Kakashi I wouldn't get too caught up in a movie like that that examines one sides case too closely. You could watch a pro Israeli movie and see things in a different way and the truth of course is somewhere in the middle.
     
  7. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    7,802
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    VDNH Station,Moscow
    Ratings:
    +97 / 0 / -0
    Re: Palestine

    No if you watch the movie and especially the ending you'll understand that it's not one-sided or something.I don't want to spoil the plot for you or anyone else but if you watch it you'll see what I mean.In the end the point of the movie is that violence leads to nowhere.
     
  8. ScreenXSurfer

    ScreenXSurfer Better Than You

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2009
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Where you want to live
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    Re: Palestine

    I find the whole idea of disproportionate response that Israel has been practicing to be sick. "Terrorist found in an apartment? Blow the whole thing up Team America style." "Dissidents found in Gaza? Blockade the shit out of it."

    And the colony bits. Just lol. There's what, 7 or so million Jews in Israel? What justification do they have to continue spreading when they can fit their entire population within a single large city? Pretty upset with my government when it vetoed the UN resolution to put an end to that. In fact I'm upset with my government being a bitch to Israel. Israel depends on us for their total existence and they rarely try to make things easier for us and their actions continue to besmirch the US through association.

    So yeah I'm not a part of the pro-Israel camp that most of Americans follow, which is massive btw. A good strategy by Israel though, I have to admit. Turn the populace of their greatest benefactor and ally on their side to ensure continued support in the future. Only democracy in the middle-east as well as the best ally of Christians in the area? Well, despite the recent string of revolutions putting the former to an end, that still wasn't the case with the Lebanon, who also treats Christians better than Israel ever did (and incidently has the largest Christian population in that area, IIRC, with a 40% population being Christians). That may change in the future though, given Israel's actions have caused Hezbollah to turn their neighbor almost to the extremist edge of the spectrum (even then Hezbollah still has the support of many Christian political parties).

    So yeah everything they've done has kinda made be upset, and that I disagree with the entire notion that a ethnicity/religion deserve their own country. Reminds me too much of Nazis and modern white supremist. And I'd completely support having them all just migrate to some part in some empty area in the United States and building a lot of cities there. Hell I don't give a damn where in the US they go. One, everybody would be happier (except perhaps the orthodox Jews, who I don't care for anyway because they're racist), and Two, I'd LOL at the A3P movement's reaction to this. Seriously they'd flip out and I'd ROFLOL.

    I'd say put them in Africa somewhere to make the continent slightly better like SA does, but I'm sure we'd end up in the same situation that we have NOW. :(
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2011
  9. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    7,802
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    VDNH Station,Moscow
    Ratings:
    +97 / 0 / -0
    Re: Palestine

    Actually before they created the State of Israel in 1948 there were many proposals by Jews as to where they would build their own land.Some of the proposals included buying land in Africa,Cyprus some other places and of course Palestine.And Palestine seemed to be the most logical and desired suggestion.So they started buying land from the Arabs little by little and then they started migrating legally or illegally to Palestine by the thousands.
    And everything was ok until in 1948 they are suddenly given half of the country(or a bit more than half)when they occupied just a tiny bit of the entire area and they were a minority there.I'm not the one to judge their right to be on that land.And I am not saying they shouldn't be living in Israel.

    But treating the Palestinians like animals and setting up hundreds of checkpoints and army camps inside their land and having dozens of Jewish settlements there that is like messing with a bee hive.

    On the other hand the Palestinians should go back to the more moderate political parties and actually try to find more realistic solutions than "kick them out of here" that their current Hamas political party follows.
     
  10. Kelmourne

    Kelmourne The Savage Hippy

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    8,034
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    A Pirate city in international cyberspace
    Ratings:
    +119 / 0 / -0
    Re: Palestine

    http://www.channel4.com/news/israeli-soldiers-ordered-to-cleanse-gaza

    I really don't know how people can refute this kind of evidence anymore.
     
  11. Julie

    Julie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,293
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Belgium
    Ratings:
    +41 / 0 / -0
    Re: Palestine

    Me too!
    I don't get why the general assembly doesn't intervene..They can pass resolutions that are getting blocked in the SC with a 2/3rd plurality, I think, due to the "Uniting for Peace" resolution.
     
  12. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,908
    Likes Received:
    215
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    England
    Ratings:
    +225 / 0 / -0
    Re: Palestine

    Like all stories, there's two sides to it.

    Jews have been in whats now Israel & Palestine for millennia ~ that's historical fact. Indeed if you believe what's written in the bible, purely as a historical document, it's the Land of the Hebrews, the Kingdoms of Israel & Judah c3000 years ago. Why should the Arabs have the sole/greater claim to the area?

    Palestinian Arabs didn't help themselves either by backing the Nazis during WW2 whereas 10s of thousands of Jews joined the British armed forces (as did some Arabs to be fair). It's little wonder that the Jews got the backing of the west and Britain who then held the Mandate for Palestine when, after millions had been gased, they decided to go back to what they considered to be their spiritual homeland.

    The initial proposed divison of Palestine gave the Jews mainly desert. The Arabs walked away from the negotiating table and chose, with neighbouring Arab nations, to attack the (newly formed) state of Israel instead.

    Since then there's been atrocities on both sides, both have blood on their hands, neither are the 'good guys'. With a seemingly total lack of goodwill or willingness to compromise on both sides I don't see a solution anytime soon. The Israelis certainly won't go back to pre-1967 borders unless it's part of a full regional settlement as, for example, the Golan heights are a defensive buffer against Syria who had previously used them to shell Israel from.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2011
  13. Aphelion

    Aphelion The Mighty One

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    No Man's Land
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0
    Re: Palestine

    I have done some extensive research on the subject because it seems to be an ever going issue that will never have a solution, but in the light of what I know, I don't find Israel as such an "Agressor" as some would think. I agree with most of what ~Elladan~ had written, but you should look a bit deeper into the very details of the situation, the Jews built Israel from nothing - infrastructure, roads, power plants etc. Arabs didn't have all that, as a matter of fact, Israel is the one who provides the Palestinians gas, electricity, water etc. And the hilarious part is that they don't even pay taxes. Yes, it's the Jews who keep them alive, and here comes the question - why should they? If all they get back are terrorist attacks (in buses, bus-stations, malls etc.) and rockets flying over their cities (on citizens and their homes) both from the south (Gaza) and the north (Lebanon - not currently, 2006 if im not wrong). So the big picture is that Israeli citizens pay taxes in order to provide for the people who hate and kill them, if it were any other country, it would have never been allowed to happen. Best example is Russia and Chechnya, there were also alot of innocent people who just wanted to live in peace but still amongst these people were many terrorists, it is a very delicate situation which requires alot of skill and precision in order to be dealt with, but nevertheless, innocents sometimes pay the price for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time (on both sides). If Israel was like Russia, then the Palestinians and the Hamas (which btw is a terrorist organization that thinks that the State of Israel should be forever erased from the face of the earth) would have been dealt with long ago, because Israel has the means and the power to do so. However, from obvious reasons which you should know, it doesn't happen. I would also like to add that the Israeli army is called - IDF, which means Israeli "Defense" Forces, the sole purpose of the Israeli army is to defend its citizens and country and not to attack (there is a big difference between the two), and thats how it is in reality, Israel only retaliates after an aggravating Palestianian attack and not the opposite, because history has proven many times - that if you don't act, the enemy gets bolder.

    Moreover, in 1948, the Palestinians are the ones who started the war and not the Jews. They didn't agree to any terms to divide the territory with the Jews, despite the fact that they got much more land. Yet you still believe that the land that was "conquered" in a war, on which thousands of Jewish soldiers spilled their own blood, will be so easily given back? especially when there are already settlements and cities built there, which are inhabited by both Arabs and Jews. But lets not confuse the "Israeli Arabs" who live in Israel and enjoy its fruitfulness, they don't have any problems, they have their mosques, they study in Israeli universities and work alongside Jews. It's quite obvious if you compare the conditions in which Palestinians live in Gaza and these Israeli Arabs who live in Jaffa, Lod, Nazareth and other Israeli cities. But is it in any way Israel's problem? I don't think so, Palestinians are the ones who chose a terrorist organization to lead them.

    The media in the world shows many stories, like photos of dead Palestinian children who are presumably killed by Israeli soldiers. My point is that the media is very biased, it shows whatever it thinks will give better rating and make some scandal, and people who are far from the subject are momentarily lead astray. However, there are always two sides to the coin, but sadly, not everyone is able to comprehend that.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2011
  14. Julie

    Julie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,293
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Belgium
    Ratings:
    +41 / 0 / -0
    Re: Palestine

    Huh, Israel isn't providing Palestinians water. They make use of aquifers, in fact Israel is taking water from the West Bank and they are denying the Palestinians full access to their own water resources:

    I don't know about gas and electricity, but I do know there are complicated regulations and I'm sure Israel wouldn't settle for an arrangement where they don't benefit from. Which is understandable.

    Why would the Palestinians have to pay taxes to Israel? Imagine your country gets occupied by a force. Would you suddenly have to pay taxes to the invading countries? The occupation is illegal, the palestinians in the occupied areas are not being represented in the Israeli government, and in fact, their human rights are not even being respected:

    In fact, administrative order has become a routine practice, instead of an exceptional measure. It has become the alternative to criminal trial. Administrative detainees are not provided meaningful information on the reasons of their detention and they are not given an opportunity to refute the suspicions. The detention can be extended for additional six-moth periods indefinitely. Many palestinian detainees are held inside the State of Israel, in breach of international law.

    Again, the state of Israel can randomly detain people; they are guilty as long as the contrary has not been proved, contrary to the fundamental principle that a person is innocent until proved otherwise.

    Of course, Palestinian extremists are in fault terrorizing Israel, but Israel is also wrong in their reaction and in the continuation of the settlements. I also think it's just a reality that Israel is the more powerful player of the two, economically, militarily and in their international position, and they are abusing that position.
     
  15. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,705
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    West Australia
    Ratings:
    +186 / 1 / -0
    Re: Palestine

    The UN may supposedly be impartial, but it's still made up of humans, and humans always have agendas. And the big boys in town will always use their veto powers to protect their own interests, not necessarily to "do the right thing."

    The Jewish people have been victimised and brutalised for centuries. But they are now doing the same thing to another displaced people, and nobody is willing to tell them to stop. Neither side wants to live side by side and sings songs together. They want all of that land to themselves and don't want to share.

    I liken Israel to a victim of bullying. They know they are surrounded by those who wish their removal. So they act overly aggressive, in order to make a point. Like a schoolkid who is bullied, who one days snaps and doesn't just fight back, but puts their tormentor in hospital or in a grave, to make a point to anyone else thinking about bullying him in future.

    Both sides commit atrocities against each other, fuelling anger, hatred and justification of why we need to keep on doing what we're doing. This conflict has gone on for centuries, but in the year 2011 it boggles the mind that the international community would allow it to continue for centuries to come.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Aphelion

    Aphelion The Mighty One

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    No Man's Land
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0
    Re: Palestine

    First of, Israel isn't taking, Israel is buying water and not from the west bank but from other countries in europe like Turkey. But it has it's own sources too, inside its territory, and water treatment stations, pipelines that cover the whole country (including Palestinians) and other water related technologies. I don't think they are denying them water, maybe limiting it but not denying. If they denied then believe me there wouldn't have been anyone alive there. The UN Human Rights Committee only finds what the Palestinians want it to find, you shouldn't think of them as defenseless and brainless lambs, they know what they are doing. I wonder why ships that delivered "food and medicine" to Gaza, that after taken and thoroughly searched, found full of weapons. I guess guns are more needed. Also, Israel sent convoys with food and medicine to Gaza a couple of times. About electricity, Gaza has its own power plant but the fuel is bought from Israel and it isn't sufficient, IEC (Israel Electricity Corporation) supplies half of Gaza's power, and you say they don't need to pay taxes? But I might be wrong, Palestinians who work inside Israel perhaps do pay taxes. So ye, it might be my mistake.


    Why? You think resources should be free? o_O


    Occupation is damn legal, why shouldn't it be? The State of Israel exists for over 60 years now, and the territories are conquered in a bloody war, why should they give them back? Especially when the war was started by the Arabs and Israel merely defended itself (but that's just my opinion, the facts speak otherwise though). By the end of the Six-Day War, Israel had conquered enough territory to more than triple the size of the area it controlled, from 8,000 to 26,000 square miles. Israel's leaders fully expected to negotiate a peace agreement with their neighbors that would involve some territorial compromise. Almost immediately after the war, Israel began discussions intimating its willingness to negotiate a return of at least some of the territories. Israel subsequently returned all of the Sinai to Egypt, territory claimed by Jordan was returned to the Hashemite Kingdom, and nearly all of the Gaza Strip and more than 40 percent of the West Bank was given to the Palestinians to establish the Palestinian Authority. To date, well over 90 percecent of the territories won in the defensive war have been given by Israel to its neighbors after negotiations -- demonstrating that Israel has consistently been prepared to trade land for peace.
    As for Palestinian human rights, they aren't respected because they come at night to a hebrew settelment and slaughter a whole family (even babies) with knives like butchers while they sleep, read more Israeli news too and not only Palestinian whining (I'm just trying to say that every coin has two sides, so don't just look on one).


    What did you expect when school buses get hit by rockets and crowded places being potential targets for shootings, when things like that occur too often, then of course harsh measures must be taken, otherwise more people will die. Should Israel be forbidden to defend itself?


    Here I agree but if it is a matter of national security then I don't think any country will act much differently, also I don't think its "randomly" as you say, Israel doesn't do anything randomly, they have powerful Intelligence Corps, they act as precisely as possible.
     
  17. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    7,802
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    VDNH Station,Moscow
    Ratings:
    +97 / 0 / -0
    Re: Palestine

    The occupation of Palestine is illegal and therefore the people of Palestine,that is the West Bank and Gaza,since there is no official Palestinian country right now that exists as a fully independent and functional State,have absolutely no obligation to pay taxes to Israel.They also have the right to be angry about the occupation which enforces dozens of checkpoints INSIDE Palestinian soil,set up by Israelis and I'd be angry too if the so-called "civilized" and "peaceful" Israel kept building settlements inside my own homeland and soil.

    There are stupid fanatics in the Palestinian side as well who claim they want the entire Palestine for themselves or that the Palestinians should have a muslim state only with or without sharia law(probably with sharia law).But whenever they do something bad and attack Israeli houses,people and the army,Israel...the so-called "Defensive Forces" retaliate with a brutal strength that causes even more evil and wrecks more havoc.So we do know who is actually the big bully in the area.
    Also having America licking Israel all the time and taking their side ALWAYS is something frustrating because of the hypocrisy of these two countries.

    Palestinians have a RIGHT to be angry,you know why?Because they were the majority of the that land before 1948 and suddenly,the international community gives them a ridiculously big part to live there for such a small people.The Arabs on the other sides,being dumb war losers as always,lost all wars against Israel from 1948 until now.
     
  18. Aphelion

    Aphelion The Mighty One

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    No Man's Land
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0
    Re: Palestine

    When you said "there are stupid fanatics in the Palestianian side as well", it is far from a few but MANY! ofc not everyone, but evidently, it is not just some small group that causes all the pain and suffering to both sides. And about demographics, 1948 is long gone, the statistics now are roughly 75% Jews and about 20% Arabs, so how do you solve this now? you can't transport millions of people to some other new place (also don't forget that the hatred is in the blood now, and no matter what, you can't have peace while there are so many radicals on both sides, so basically it was a rhetorical question). And again, Jewish people had at least as much if not more rights than Arabs to live in this land that is now called Israel, and it was fully understandable that the survivors of WWII would come there and start their lives normally, Arabs still had much more land, and the British mandate was Pro-Arab almost all of the time, so the Jews were cornered from all sides. After the decision for the creation of a Jewish State was made, the Jews were more than pleased and started celebrating that they, at last, have a piece of their own land where they can live in peace and unity. Arabs were still holding most of the land but it wasn't enough, they didn't want the Jews at all, and they still don't.

    The wars (all of them) were started by the Palestinians and other adjacent Arab nations, Israel merely defended itself, don't argue with facts (plus a war is a war, so ofc it will involve conquered territories, why complain? we've seen many countries expand their territories in wars in the past, what makes this one so special?). About IDF retaliation, it's pretty simple actually, if they don't retaliate then the Palestinians will see that their actions go without any punishment, so what will a person who did a bad thing does next if he sees that no judgement came upon him? He will continue and it will get worse.
     
  19. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    7,802
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    VDNH Station,Moscow
    Ratings:
    +97 / 0 / -0
    Re: Palestine

    Oh really?Constantinople was our capital for 1100 years.Will the UN give us back Eastern Thrace along with Constantinople,West Asia Minor,Pontus and Cappadocia right now although the Turks live there?
    More than 500,000 Greeks were eliminated by the Turks in the early 20th century,maybe even a million or more.More than 1,000,000 Armenians were exterminated by the Turks at the same time period or so.More than 1,800,000 Greeks were forced to leave their ancestral lands in Anatolia.
    Do the Jews have the only claim as a people and a nation to have had a genocide and thus be given their old lands back by the UN?

    If that's so,then we should get like...2/3 of what is now Turkey back and the entire Cyprus.How do you think the Turks would react on that?

    The Six Days War was started by Israel.Maybe the Arabs were preparing for a new war against Israel,but no matter what...a pre-emptive strike does mean you start a war before it is officially or unnoficially declared.

    1982...in order to push back the PLO from Lebanon they invaded the entire country.Well almost all of it.And they interfered in the Lebanese civil war.And they fought against the Syrian army there as well.

    In 2006 they invaded Lebanon again destroying the entire country just to eliminate an organisation.

    Don't take me wrong,I am AGAINST radical Islam and I hate terrorism to the guts!I hate all these jihadis and I hate their barbaric ways.Afghanistan,Chechnya,Bosnia,Iraq they have been showing to the world what kind of savages and evil people they are.

    But Palestine is a different case because Israel is abusing the entire Palestinian nation one way or another when they could have peace easily.
    Let's face it.Israel is no longer surrounded by strong enemies.Egypt and Jordan have long ago signed peace treaties with Israel or at least stopped taking part in the wars against the State of Israel.Lebanon has no army strong enough to fight against Israel.Syria has little chance of winning a war against Israel.How are they going to fight against Israel?With T-72 and T-55 tanks?With T-62 tanks?With BMP-1 IFVs?With relatively old jet fighters?Besides they have other problems now.
    The only potential power to attack Israel is Iran and that's not only because they have a better army than Syria when it comes to tanks and other stuff,but because they also have a massive army of motivated people.
    But they can't attack Israel.Because if USA gets involved they will need their army back to defend their homeland.

    So why do the Israelis still abuse the Palestinians and still are the big bullies of the entire region?
     
  20. Aphelion

    Aphelion The Mighty One

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    No Man's Land
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0
    Re: Palestine

    I agree that Israel has no potential enemies except Iran right now, but the only thing that actually worries Israel is the Iran nuclear plan, which btw is bad for everyone else too, however, I don't think anyone is so stupid to start a nuclear war which will quickly engulf the whole world. Besides that, Iran is aiding Palestianian terrorists with weapon supplies, Palestianians keep terrorising Israeli citizens and that still remains a direct problem.

    Israel fights with terror and not innocents. And I beg to differ, through out history, Israel only defended itself and never attacked, if they attacked first then it was a percise action in order to disable and prevent a potential terrorist attack to strike Israel first. I will write it one more time, after the Six Day War, Israel negotiated their territories with the Arab nations and the Palestinians for peace, why do you think Egypt signed? they got Sinai back, and Jordan? they got some territory back too, plus their king was smart enough to stop the useless bloodshed. Palestinians in the end got Gaza and West Bank, Israel returned almost everything they conquered, it's not a myth but a fact. Anyways, I really don't understand why you keep saying they are victims, isn't it enough what radical islam is doing in europe? subway bombing in Moscow? in London? and how about the Twin Towers? I can continue the list.. It is very sad that after so many aggravating terrorist attacks, you still can't put yourself in Israel's position, because rockets, bombs and shootings are initiated by the Palestinians and it happens on a daily basis in Israel.. If you read Israeli news on the web, you will never get bored, and you think they don't want a normal and peacful life? You really don't get it do you? Palestinians are ruled by Hamas, I wont write here what it is, I think you should know. They are the ones who chose it, they never wanted peace and they never will. Hamas uses the Palestinian people so that Israel won't be able to bomb the hell out of them, they use fear to control and they use the aid they get on weapon supplies, it never goes to the people themselves, that's why the situation and life in Gaza doesn't improve but gets worse. Israel is under no circumstances at fault that Palestinians chose a terrorist organization to lead them, but maybe it proves something about the majority there.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2011