Opinions on the Israel-Lebanon war...

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by azuren82, Aug 2, 2006.

  1. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

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    Chill guys, this is a debate thread. No use in questioning the intelligence of the other person when you guys can be willing to explore the possible truths of what each other said...
     
  2. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    Yes, Al Quaeda, a Muslim terrorist group. Then there was the USS Cole, the Embassy bombings world wide, the first Trade Center Bombing, so on an so forth.

    Again, what "destruction" is the US causing? If Iraq is you're only answer (even then it is Muslims killing Muslims, the US is hardly even participating these days) then it is a very small and shallow answer when you ignore stuff like DARFUR.



    Okay now, this is really funny. After we invaded Iraq oil prices went down? During the Iraq war the US had hit its highest level of oil prices EVER, the exact opposite of what you are claiming. Really, it's mind boggling. Only now have prices gone down a bit. But even still, it is clear you have no idea what you are talking about.

    You're right. Ronald Reagan should have given in to the Soviet Union. After all, the US nuclear arsenal is a threat. Not the former USSR or Iran who wants to funnel nuclear weapons to terrorists or North Korea that wants to sell nuclear technology...


    In 50 years we will be just fine. The idea of a destructive future of Global Warming is an entire farce. I believe in Global Warming, but humans aren't causing it. Recorded history has shown the earth has risen and decreased in temperature numerous times without human intervention. 20 years ago scientists were afraid of a new Ice Age. Now it's Global Warming, but all predictions have been radically wrong. Antartica has substantially increased ice mass, yet all you ever hear about is icebergs breaking off.

    Yes we did it for money. The Kyoto Treaty would have thrown the US into an inescapable economic recession. Clinton, an avid Global Warming activist, didn't sign it because the treaty is just a terrible idea. Oh, by the way, the Japanese who sponsored the Treaty haven't even followed it. In 2005 Japan had one of it's coldest winters ever (Global Warming, huh?) and greatly increased CO2 emissions.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/6098922.stm




    In 1947 Israel was formed, which was a decision granted by, drum roll, THE UN!

    Second, Palestinian newspapers also say Israelis kidnap children and use their blood to make Matzo. Doesn't mean everything you read from PLO press people is true.

    The US shoudln't be going around governing the world, I agree. However in recent history the world has demended we act in the Balkans, Bosnia, Liberia, the Darfur region of Sudan, we helped out with the tsunami disaster in Indonesia, we are basically told by the world community what to do.

    No, it doesn't. There are assholes everywhere and Israel is no exception.

    Difference being that Israeli's don't blow up a bus full of women and children based on their religion. Any Palestinian civillians that get killed are almsot always the result of terrorists and militants hiding among the civillian population daring Israeli's to fire back, which they do. CNN documented a case a while ago where Palestinian snipers were hiding in a crowd of children who were throwing rocks at an Israeli envoy. 3 children dies while trying to kill the snipers and the PLO portrayed it as Israel killing children on purpose. However CNN broadcast some of the footage which showed, in fact, that Palestinians use innocent people as human shields. this happens all the time, in Iraq, in Lebanon, and in Palestine.

    When you outnumber someone 60 to 1, defending yourself against that one person is kind of silly.



    yes, I agree. there is a case pending where a US soldier murdered a family and then raped a woman. If it's true, he shoudl get the death penalty for that.

    But when you consider the 5 soldiers in Abu Ghrahib, all involved have been court martialed and are being prosecuted by the way, how is my statement innacurate?



    Again, I ask about this "American's need reeducation." What is that supposed to mean?

    Stupid lifestyle? Where are you coming up with all this stuff? Having a chip on your shoulder is no way to try to frame, or win, a debate.




    There are plenty of reasons I voted for Bush instead of Kerry in 2004. However I didn't think either one were great choices. I had no confidence Bush would cut government spending. No confidence he would try to stop illegal immigration. No confidence he would cut federal education spending in favor of localized government control and regulation of school districts. No confidence he wouldn't promote socilization of prescription drugs and healthcare and pass the costs on to taxpayers.

    However, out of all of that, I KNEW John Kerry would actively PUSH for these agendas, he would want to increase taxes and government spending, increase illegal immigration, increase federal education spending, increase the taxpayer burden on prescription drugs and healthcare, and a host of other things I simply wasn't interested in.
     
  3. Blackness

    Blackness Well-Known Member

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    Ok i'm done... this is a fantasy forum, not a politics forum...
    The way you twist my words is just stupid, and i know when somenthing is useless... like trying to explain you killings of innocents... i have my opinions, you have yours, done!
     
  4. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    I agree with Blackness.It's totally useless to try and talk with people about this matter especially with Justice.It's not just pointless and it's useless...it's as if his mind is like a poster that's nailed on the wall,not sticked with blue-tac.

    He keeps saying about Palestinians blowing up buses in Israel and stuff like that and while I honestly hate all these bad stuff the Palestinians are doing,I just wonder why the heck doesn't he hear about the times Israel attacks and kills children.And it's not about militants hiding in civilian areas.It's about knowing that in THIS PLACE THERE ARE CHILDREN PLAYING FOOTBALL don't throw missiles,don't attack the streets to kill 1 or 2 terrorists when the streets are full of people,DON'T blow up buses full of people in Lebanon and DON'T blow up convoys of cars and buses with clear signs saying "PRESS" and white flags on them.That's also terrorism you know.Defence and revenge are two different things.

    You forgot the time when a palestinian child,I think it was a girl was returning from school alone and an Israeli soldier in a tank fired and killed it in cold blood.You also forgot the time when Israelis grabbed a Palestinian child and chained it on their jeep so as a human shield for the Palestinians not to throw rocks at it.I saw those on the news and I still remember them.

    Did we mention the stress and anxiety that Palestinians have to through every day INSIDE their own territories where they have to wait for hours in the checkpoints every single day and distances that would take only 10 minutes with the car now take you 4 or 5 hours to get their IF you are lucky enough and the Israelis let you get there.And all that because the Israelis built or allowed settlements to be built inside the Palestinian areas between villages and cities filled with Palestinians.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2006
  5. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Justice you said:

    Turks commited genocide on the Greek and Armenian people.On Greeks they had started since 1910 systematically and in 1922 they performed a real genocide killing thousands upon thousands of Greeks of Asia Minor,kicked out of their houses more than 1.500.000 Greeks,took thousands in the labor camps in the heart of Anatolia from where most of them died and took the orphans to government institutions and made them muslims and gave them Turkish names.More than 1.000.000 Armenians were murdered as well and the Kurds who were used as groups of irregular army by the Turks of Kemal would soon have the same fate after a few decades.However USA supports Turkey and helps it.And not just USA but also Israel is the friend of Turkey and they follow a common policy in defence.

    By the way when you mentioned that USA had to attack Iraq when Saddam had invaded Kuwait...you remined me of a nice photo I had found once with Ramsfeld shaking hands with Saddam and both of them smiling like friends.Wasn't it the U.S. who supplied weapons to Saddam during the Iran-Iraq war?

    Who was it that threw the bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki?You wiped out two entire cities back then.Or did you forget?Glory Glory Hallelujah...
     
  6. Bard

    Bard Erchamion

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    I'm sorry that he is unwavering in his opinions.
     
  7. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    You see, I can only respond with logic. You respond with name calling and ad hominem attacks. Really, every time I read posts like this it really pleases me how frustrated I make people. If you had arguements to use against me you wouldn't be so frustrated.
     
  8. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    That was 80 yearsd ago. People and governments have changed since then. or should we just not communicate with the Turks at all since they had a sordid past? If that's the case we would then have no dealings with the Germans, the Russians, France has done quite a few bad things in the past, Britain tried to take over the world a few times...

    Yes, there was a point where we supported Saddam. That was before he started developing WMD's and Nuclear weaponry and started attacking other nations around him in a militaristic power grab. That's like saying the man who invented gun powder should be tried for murder every time someone is killed with a gun.



    And I am glad we used atomic weaponry on the Japanese. Not for the fact that people were killed, but for the fact it ended the war and saved us the expense of having to invade Japan which would have undoubtedly killed hundreds of thousands of our troops and possibly millions of Japanese. So by using atomic weaponry we actually saved lives.

    Oh, by the way, traditional fire bombs we used in Tokyo killed more people than Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. Funny no one mentions that.

    And last time I checked Japan is one of America's strongest allies. From your post it would seem like you believe the exact opposite.
     
  9. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    If I have an opinion, and the facts to back them up, why would I change them?
     
  10. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    I didn't twist your words. Merely quoted and replied. And statements like "our oil prices dropped after we invaded Iraq" shows there isn't a whole lot you know about these subjects, especially since the exact opposite is true.
     
  11. Bard

    Bard Erchamion

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    You wouldn't. :draught:
     
  12. volksmenner

    volksmenner practitioner of æsthetics

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    the argument about high oil prices as being an indicator that the united states does not control iraqi oil is ridiculous. the us. has secured the iraqi oil reserves, which are the second largest in the world, simply in having a standing army occupy the country. us. government sponsers, such as oil companies would not want the price of oil to drop. simple economics. an influx of iraqi oil would dilute the international oil market in terms of scarcity and significantly effect profits of the oil companies. iraq's oil production is at subpar levels by design. the united states and international oil companies post record profits due this situation. and thus the war can be explained in context to oil and imperialism.
     
  13. Blackness

    Blackness Well-Known Member

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    Ok then i made a mistake, i just say what i heard..., but the thing is, Justice, that you do not have the right to invade a country (which is in this case the cradle of civilisation) just because you don't like it and not in the name of so-called democracy...

    What you say that America attacked it to defend itself is just crap, and i won't hear it...

    You say what you want, but you are wrong... and my only arguments are etical and moral..
     
  14. Dwimmerlaik

    Dwimmerlaik Captain of Despair

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    oh sorry there both attacking each other, and we would like to put an end to it.

    thats ethical and moral, so just quit owning your self.
     
  15. volksmenner

    volksmenner practitioner of æsthetics

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    this is naive. if the united states or the united nations for that matter were concerned with ethics and morals concerning genocide and other atrocities then there would be "peacekeepers" in darfur this very moment. this is not the case and history has repeated this fact several times past. it is money and power the emblems of influence which motivate international policy.

    and who were you referring to as attacking each other? afghanistan? iraq? regarding iraq, the united states had no right to invade a sovereign country based on supposition, which inevitably proved false. neither does any other country. acts of aggression supported only by propaganda hark back to 1939.
     
  16. Dwimmerlaik

    Dwimmerlaik Captain of Despair

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    isreal and lebonon... and the US backs isreal, sooo obviously we had to.
     
  17. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    another happy US-Bush hijacked thread <3

    I think that, after almost 60 years of war and strife (will there be celebrations to commemorate this fact?) - we can be certain that there won't be a solution. So it's time for err... Blasphemy!

    Would anyone allow me to make some comparisons between Saddam Hussein and the Knessed? Lebanon was "dealt with" in much a similar fashion to what Kurds got in the Saddam-days. Who cares about aiming or "population" - it's the terrorists we want - and they'll die surely along with the rest of the people. Israel got a mild slap on the wrist. Iraq was, eventually, invaded and Saddam overthrown. The reasons for this are obvious.

    I vote for a UN invasion into both Israel AND Palestina. The two can't solve the matter - so it's time for the rest of the world to step in. At least 50.000 men. And each and every single action of one nation or group against the other should be tried and sentenced. There's nothing too much that would change. The world is sick of this disgrace.
     
  18. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    That is if you discount UN Resolution 1441, the very resolution the US followed to enter Iraq, thus erasing the whole "Illegal Invasion" arguement.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_resolution_1441

    Even if you are innocent of a crime, not showing up to the court date is a crime within itself. Saddam refused to give in to international demands to allow weapons inspectors to verify he was no longer creating WMD. He violated the ceasefire agreement hundreds of times, and refused to make reparation on Kuwait, the nation we stopped him from invading.

    It is clear that Saddam had weapons. What no one knows to this day is what happened to them. My vote has always been Syria. Mobile chemical weapons trucks were captured, but had been scrubbed clean of any chemical ordnance. So I guess illegally owning WMD creating materials isn't illegal, just the WMD's themselves.

    [​IMG]

    Incorrect data is not propaganda. So many times has "falsified" information been brought up, yet I have never seen anything that suggests ANY US Government official actually falsified documents. When the premise of the debate is improperly phrased we not only have the points to argue about, but the entire phrasing as well.
     
  19. Justice

    Justice New Member

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  20. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    I never believed Saddam had nuclear weapons...or that he denied an inspection.
    Would he be that stupid or crazy to create them if he knew he would again get the US against himself...