Opinions on the Israel-Lebanon war...

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by azuren82, Aug 2, 2006.

  1. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

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    Ok, I found out that we still haven't got a debate on what's arguably the most barbaric act in the recent world history, so I guess I can just make a topic here and see what you guys think... ok, for me I do think this war's got blown out of proportion. I dunno if this was a reasonable conflict to start with when the Hezbollah kidnapping two Israeli soldiers and israel just tries to hit back. But without a doubt, there's nothing reasonable about the whole issue getting out of control. If you drop bombs onto UN observers' post or even a civilian village which results in a lot of people getting killed, even a three year old kid will know something is not right there. True, I believe in every country's rights on self defence, but if some country bigwig expand this whole issue into an all-out war, then I'll have to question his intelligence, sanity or even both. That being said, Olmert disappointed me big time in a sense that I was hoping he could do something to mend Israel's ties with the Arab nations, but now, this kind of shit had to happen. Even though he's no Rabin, but this whole war in the Mid-East is getting ridiculous. By all logic and reasons, you don't get to have the right to invade other countries no matter what the reasons may be unless you are Osama and that's what makes me sad. I'll have to admit though that Hezbollah was to blame as well for all the stunts it tried to pull. After all, they're the ones who started the war, but without a doubt, the blood of the innocents in Lebanon was on Israel's hands. To make things worse, the Hezbollah just tried to be a bunch of idiots by firing rockets onto Israel. Somehow, what we're seeing here is something like a pair of spoilt brats fighting in school just because neither wants to give way and going all out offense. I do personally think that the leaders of both sides really need to grow up. It seems that by starting the war, they don't give a damn to innocent lives like what we all see in the Qana incident. And lastly but not least, don't buy Israel's claims that Hezbollah was the cause of the Qana bombings. That's a retarded way of shifting responsibility...
     
  2. OrcShaman

    OrcShaman Star Trek addict

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    I'm not saying that the Hezbollah didn't go looking for trouble but i think Israel really overreacted. Destroing half a country for two soldiers is ridiculous

    Azuren, you said that no country should have the right to invade another (if i understood correctly). I agree...but maybe Israel just took the US as an example :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2006
  3. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

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    That's what I'm trying to say. The Hezbollah ain't any angels, but as what you say and I'm agreeing with, destroying half a country for two soldiers is ridiculous. As for Israel taking US for example, my only reaction to this was **** Bush for screwing in the Iraqi and Afghan wars. You maybe right in saying that Israel took US as example. See this symbol here? :devilbat: That's Bush for you... angel on the outside, devil on the inside. I really hopes he ends up like this: :faceit:
     
  4. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    what else is new...

    the problem is that I was just talking to this guy who's left the Israeli army only months ago. I'm not going to explain his opinion here...

    Nor am I going to explain mine. Every single act of war from whatever side is a provocation and should be condemned. Everyone is guilty.

    Tho I'd like to note that this intervention looks as though it might be inspired on a recent war in Afghanistan...
     
  5. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    Just a Mod's warning - this is a very hot topic around the world at the moment, and tempers and emotions can flare. Just be sure to keep your posts civil and mature. Debating is fine but let's not have any name calling or racial vilification etc.
     
  6. AjaxTorbin

    AjaxTorbin New Member

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    i cheated and copied this off of my BLOG but its what i think of the war over there
    (edited for content by writer)
    have a solution to the middle east 'problem'
    LEAVE THEM THE (bleep) ALONE!!!!!
    If we let them duke it out one side will loose
    and one will win. The result of that is that
    there will be, no-more-fighting!'Cause last
    time I checked it takes two sides to hold a
    war. But no, the rest of the world has to go
    all, 'stop that Israel. don't protect yourself.'
    and kudos to pres. Bush for staying out of it.
    One more thing, i know i've said this before,
    but,IN A WAR CIVILIANS WILL DIE.
    They woulden't call it h@ll otherwise.

    P'S. i wrote this before bush sent Rice over there

    (and this i took from a post i did on the president bush thread)
    the goal of war is to take away the enemies abilty to fight, willingly or not.
    not thier will to fight, their ABILITY to fight.
    this is the reason there is still fighting in the middle east; no one side has won.
    which is why the rest of the world needs to stay out of it, no matter how 'bad' it gets.
    the problem that Israel has is that they are not fighting a 'Army' of the normal type.
    so every time they kill a enemy leader thery are accused of killing civilians, well they are,
    but who do you think is launching those rockets into Israel? the army of gaza?

    this is the new warfare. armies Vs. civilians. started with Vietnam. we need to get over this if we(as the world) are to survive. it' sad but true. we've lost our honor.

    ^call me what you will but that about sums it up for me^

    so what do ithink of the middle east? every one INCLUDING the u.s. needs to stay out of it.
    no matter what.
    the most we(the u.s.)should do is get our citizens(and any others that are not israel or lebanon) park an aircraft carrier of their coast and not let anyone in(including the U.N.)
     
  7. HumanInfiltrator

    HumanInfiltrator The Book club lady

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    I think that any form of armed combat is a waste of time, energy, life, resources and oppertunities.

    Unfortunately ALL countries are made up of people and while there are some good people and some bad people the major problem lies with the majority that falls into neither group - those who do not care as long as you leave THEM out of it. These people allow for things to happen. For instance Zuma still has a chance to run for the presidency after being in court, charged with rape and still having to go to court on corruption charges. America still tries to validate their pressence in Irak and are at the same time trying to tell people to stop shooting other people, no matter what they have done.
     
  8. OrcShaman

    OrcShaman Star Trek addict

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    I was watching CNN yesterday and saw that the israeli air force destroyed a large chunk of the lebanese transport infrastructure (their targets were mainly bridges and the most important road arteries). The lebanese transportation minister said that the damage was evaluated at about 2 billion $ and that the country was now divided in a number of regions accesible only by poor quality sideroads.
    Is it just me or this could be the beggining of an invasion?
     
  9. kartaron

    kartaron Hunter / Gatherer

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    If Israel didnt retaliate the kidnappings would have happened again and again. Besides Hezbollah were firing rockets into Israel's cities before Israel attacked. that cant go unanswered.

    Anyone interested in critizing Israel should offer an alternative which would have offered peace and safety for their citizens.
     
  10. OrcShaman

    OrcShaman Star Trek addict

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    I'm not saying they aren't intitled to retaliate, just that they overreacted
     
  11. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    I think Israel is doing the right thing for their country. they tried the whole "lets make peace" and tried to get the UN to help (the UN is a waste always has been). So the UN said "Hey, stop making rockets Hezbollah, please" then they replied "Yes, okay, we will stop." while crossing their fingers.
    Then they started this whole mess. IF Israel doesnt defend themselves what else are they going to do, let themselves get blown up because the world doesnt want civillians hurt?
    Umm, what about the civillains in Israel? So apparently its okay for their people to die just as long as noone else does.
    Then their is Iran, who has sworn...recently might I add to wipe Israel off the map...but thats another story.

    Im sorry, but in my opinion bombing a terrorist organization in retaliton to both kidnappings, murder and the launching of rockets deserves a full retaliation. I say Kudos to Israel, bomb away, teach them a lesson.
     
  12. Entreri

    Entreri New Member

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    To me I am still undecided on this topic! I think that Isreal has found a excuse (in their two soldiers) to attack Hezbollah and therefore have taken it. I think it is great that is has seemed to unite Isreal's people for the first time in a long time but at what cost. This isnt a short term thing and I would hate to see it escelate! I really hope they can agree to a cease fire!
     
  13. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

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    I will agree that the Hezbollah were a bunch of terrorists and that what they did by firing rockets into Israel was wrong, but this is war we're talking about, not some petty squabble. No matter what happened, Israel just shouldn't go all out and invade a neighbouring country just because some terrorists from there took two of their men. See what happened right now? Neither wants to back down and that's the most headache part of the whole issue. I'm not saying that the Jewish civilians are deserving of the rocket blasts, but know that what happened right now in Israel is due to what happened to Lebanon. By saying something like this, it will appear to a neutral that you're rooting for Israel and don't really give a damn to the Lebanese. You say teach those terrorists a lesson, but know that in a war, it's the civilians who suffered the most, not the warring parties. That's what is happening right now. I believe what happened to Qana is a testimony of how evil this whole issue can get...
     
  14. AjaxTorbin

    AjaxTorbin New Member

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    (Rich)Armitage (former deputy secretary of state) was quoted as saying in the Financial Times on August 1 as saying: "This administration has an irrational fear that talking is a sign of weakness. It is the best way of gathering information and influencing events."-talking about the administration's middle east policy
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/2006080...AwUvioA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

    number one, talking hasn't worked over there before, why would it work now?

    number two, the best way of gathering info is OBSERVATION, not talking. a picture is worth a thousand words.

    number three, ACTION is the best way to influence events, not talking.

    oppinion: this guy was deputy secretary of state? what a moron.
     
  15. kartaron

    kartaron Hunter / Gatherer

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    Being an idiot is a requirement for Ses State. You have to be an idiot to be able to believe Iran, Iraq, Syria, NK or terrorist groups like Hezbollah might negotiate honestly.

    Especially when the entire reason they are back in Lebanon is because Hezbollah never disarmed and the UN never required them to, despite obligations to the contrary.
     
  16. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    I don't see how the road to peace can include negotiating with terrorists. Their word means nothing.

    If terrorists and militants Islamic factions layed down their arms then there would be peace in the Middle East.

    If Israel layed down their arms there would be another holocaust.

    When Israel accidentally kills civilians it is a war crime. Hezbollah routinely fires rockets among the civilian population.

    When Arabs purposely kill civilians it is "resistance". Hezbollah routinely targets civilians to promote terror.

    Iran is on the U.N. Security Council.

    Israel isn't.

    The U.N. passed resolution 1559 to make sure Hezbollah disarmed and that violence on their behalf is countered. They have never followed up on their own responsibilities.

    The 4 U.N Peacekeepers who were killed were suspiciously close to a Hezbollah rocket launcher site. They may not have been helping Hezbollah, but they definitely were watching them and were doing nothing to stop them.

    Mahmoud Amadenijad (President of Iran) has repeatedly called for the death and destruction of Israel.

    Iran funds Hezbollah to the tune of nearly 100 million dollars a year. They are also desperately trying to sidetrack from their Nuclear ambitions.

    Israel has not demanded the death and destruction of any nation.

    And despite the facts being almost entirely on Israel's side (and moderate Arab nations have spoken out against Hezbollah) much of Europe and even some in the U.S. hold a bafflingly bigoted and practically racist view against the Israeli's. Israel is a small nation surrounded by a sea of enemies. Despite the fact such a minority is usually protected and cherished by much of the world, in this case they are Israeli's or Jewish, and we know how racist people can be against them.

    I think the entire reason for the contreversy begins and ends with Israel. I have no doubt israel could be hit with a WMD, and if they retaliated in kind they would be the villians.
     
  17. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    Exactly. The world is remarkably anti-Israel/anti-Jew. And for what reason I ask? I wonder how Israel feels about this. I mean, they are the ones being attacked, they are the ones nearly wiped out of existence before, they are the ones who have no friendly neighbors and yet when they decide to say "Enough is Enough!" the world gets their panties in a twist. Personally I hope the terror group Hezbollah is wiped out of existence to the last supporter.
    Israel is defending themselves and I offer them my full respect.
     
  18. Boadicea

    Boadicea Warrior Queen

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    In this matter, I fully support Israel. It wasn't wise to retaliate so strongly to the Israeli hostage-taking, but I agree with Justice and everyone that has pointed out that doing nothing would only lead to more--and worse--provocations.
    What I find most disturbing about this whole ordeal is that Hezbollah isn't just a bunch of disorganized Muslim fanatics. They've organised themselves into a political body that could almost be described as a "democracy". So if we're successfully spreading democracy to the Middle East, pretty soon we'll have disciplined armies of Jihadists coming against, not only eachother, but us as well.Somehow, I don't think this was quite what we wanted.
    And if anything I said here is unclear, please ask me to clarify. It's 1 in the morning right now, and I need sleep desperately.
     
  19. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Eh, tomorrow I'll scan in an interesting article I read the other day. I'm not saying that I wholeheartedly agree with it, but I do see that there are many interesting points in there. Basically, it explains that the whole Israel-Hezbollah crisis didn't just begin with the kidnapping of soldiers.

    Also, I wish that America wouldn't support Israel just because it suits its own interests. Please do not attempt to say that I am "anti-Israeli" just because my sympathies don't lie with Israel. About the only thing I wish for is peace within that sector. Not that we're likely to get it.
     
  20. Confessor

    Confessor New Member

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    I'm not quite sure how i feel. Yes I know that it is a...tough subject to discuss. I don't feel it is right for the innocents in Israel to die. I believe it is all about the war that has been going on since the crusades. The war to Rule the Holy Land. And on the fact that Iran is there I don't trust them as well and nor Iraq. Saddam still thinks he runs the place even though he's in court on trial. I wish they would sentence Saddam so everything can be finished. It's crazy that the innocents are the ones who always get hurt. I just don't trust anyone in the middle east ever sine Iraq went to war. I just don't like the fact that many American Soliders are dying for this. Just last week we ended up burying one from my hometown and I knew the man. It doesn't matter what side you are, you still suffer.