Opinions on A Feast for Crows [Spoilers]

Discussion in 'A Song of Ice and Fire' started by Falagar, Nov 5, 2005.

  1. Falagar

    Falagar Death

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    Yup, finished the book! Reached the last chapter thursday night after perhaps half a day's reading and neglecting of school-work, but have been a bit busy and didn't think of posting here before now. Naturally, there's quite a lot to say. I'll try to state my opinions in this post...








    (...which will contain some major spoilers...)

















    ...but I'm a not entirely certain as to what I should say. Of course, it was a good read. Martin's writing, his characters and his world are as good as ever (though the pace is slowing down) and there are many good moments. I thought the best chapters were Sansas' (the eldest miss Stark is fast becoming one of my favorite characters, actually), Jaimes' (who continues on his path away from Cercei, and to redemption?), those on the Krakens and their dealings and the chapters containing Prince Doran and his relatives.

    But I didn't think it was as good as the others, at all. As mentioned earlier the pace has gone down a few notches. Some passages were longwinded (not Jordan-winded, yet), there aren't many really important events (and Cercei's apparent fall was expected, so no big surprises), and I'm wondering what on earth he's doing with some characters. Brienne's thread seemed...meaningless. Unless she didn't die (Martin sure loves those cliff-hangers) her whole journey didn't have much point to it.

    I'll have to break it off here, no time to write the rest now. I'll be back.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2005
  2. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Interesting book - I just finished it, but it's nothing on the scale of Clash or Storm. The Sansa and Jaime chapters are the best, but otherwise... it's too slow, nothing's happening. Arya, whose chapters I was looking forward to, didn't hold much for me at all. As for Cersei... :rolleyes: Ugh. I'll post more later, but I'm yawning a lot, and I have school tomorrow. Hopefully, ADWD will be better, and I'm looking forward to the aSoIaF artbook.
     
  3. Ilaelin

    Ilaelin The Mother of Dragons

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    My goodness girl, did you stay up to the wee hours to finish it? You are definetly one to be admired *bows low to the Lady* I'm impressed, unfortunatley I just got past the prologue I didn't even get to sit down with the book until after 11:00pm last nigt. Ok, gotta go read more and stop posting. I'll be back when I'm done...C-ya! *logs of computer and jumps on couch with book*
     
  4. Falagar

    Falagar Death

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    No sleep tonight? Impressing! :cool: Only done that twice...not with this book, sadly. :-/

    I agree. Though Arya really is an interesting character she seemed a bit out of place in AFfC. Not much interesting happened in her chapters, and the meeting with Sam...gah. Half of ADwD's chapter (or more) should already be written, I don't think they'll be much faster. Hopefully it'll pick up when he's finished with the 7-year-gap he had to fill.
     
  5. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    :D Yup, finished it around 2:00 in the morning.

    My god, I HATED Cersei. I want to kill her! As for this seven-year gap thing, it was GRRM's original intention to have 5-7 years in between the books, right? (In Westeros, not in RL) Is AFFC and ADWD intended to cover that 5-7 year gap?
     
  6. Subterranean

    Subterranean New Member

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    Obviously SPOILERS below


    I agree that this book definitely seemed slower than the others, especially SoS, but, there seemed to be more hidden secrets (or maybe it's just been so long since the last book I forgot how subtle they were).

    Things like Sarella = Alleras (backwards) and that Pate is Jaqen sent a shiver down my spine when I saw them. It was good to meet Marwyn at last, after mirri maz durs mentioning of him and what the last word Brienne said was when she was being hanged. Also good to see Sandor is far from dead and has actually taken up the faith :) I wonder what exactly happened to him after Arya left him.
     
  7. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    I'm rereading the whole thing again, as I probably missed a LOT of little things.... Which Pate is Jaqen? And as for Sarella and Alleras, are you talking about Alleras of the Citadel and Sarella the Sand Snake?

    I did like the Greyjoy chapters, and LOVED the Martell chapters - but the one thing I really disliked in this book is that we had many, many PoVs and very few that had more than 2 or 3. Asha would have been great if we had more on her, and Arianne as well. But looking at Ser Arys, Asha, Aeron Damphair, etc. who only had a few chapters kinda made me a bit annoyed, because I wanted to find out more about them. Sansa/Alayne, Jaime, and Cersei seem to be the only characters with a complete storyarc, and Sansa not much. Arya had a measly 4 chapters, compared to her usual 8-9 in previous books, although I've heard that Arya will show up in ADWD as well.

    The Dany excerpt looks interesting, though...

    Oh, and another thing. Although we didn't see much of Jon Snow except in the Sam chapters, I don't really like him anymore.

    I'll post later after I've reread again.
     
  8. Subterranean

    Subterranean New Member

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    In the prologue we see Pate killed by someone with the exact physical description of Jaqen (his new face anyway) and yet later in Sams chapter, a boy with the exact physical description of Pate is serving maester Marwyn. Either he didnt actually die (unlikely), or someone took his face.

    And yes the Alleras is the Sphinx from the citadel, and strangely Aemon was mumbling about the sphinx being the riddle. Plus he just happens to be dornish, have the same physical description as Sarella (though changed slightly) and be in Oldtown, where Sarella should have been. Obviously the names were the first give away though.

    A lot of the short PoV arcs didnt bother me too much, as we got a wider view of whats going on in multiple areas of southern Westeros. For example, if not for all the Arys Oakheart, Captain of the Guards and the Princess in the Tower PoVs, we would have had a fairly limited view of Dorne, which is probably where a lot of the southern action is going to kick off.
     
  9. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    It's not that I didn't want them there - I wanted MORE! Lots more! :D (Especially about Arianne and Asha).

    After rereading the Prologue, I think that Sarella probably is Alleras; Prince Doran mentioned something about her playing a game. He's also mentioned as pretty/handsome, speaking with a soft Dornish drawl, and has curly black hair. (Can't remember if they mention anything about his/her eyes). He's also a very good archer, and seeing that Obara runs around with a whip and Nymeria with her knives, Sarella being an acher isn't too far off the mark. Thanks, Subterranean, for letting me see that! :)
     
  10. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    The other thing I didn't like much about this book was that it was somewhat predictable. I predicted that Jaime Lannister would start growing up and moving away from Cersei, which happened, and that's pretty much the entire point of the Jaime chapters in AFFC.

    I guessed that Sansa would start playing politics, which is essentially what's she's doing at the end of the book.

    Arya Stark is becoming a Faceless Woman, which I also predicted.

    Brienne was one of my guesses for the mystery PoV.

    Frankly, I guess that was my biggest problem with it. Not enough surprises.
     
  11. Turgon883

    Turgon883 New Member

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    I hate to burst your bubble...but on this one i think i have to try....I'm pretty sure that Alleras is a man....and Sarella is female....so i'm not so sure that they are the same....though everything else seems to fit.....but i'm pretty sure one's male and one's female.....i could be wrong though....lol
     
  12. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Yes, that's true, but it's very arguable that Alleras is Sarella in disguise. Besides the whole physical description, Prince Doran mentioned her playing a game. Alleras is a great archer, and he speaks with a soft Dornish draw.

    Also, examine the fact that Prince Oberyn once forged 5 or 6 links of his maester's chain in the Citadel before becoming bored and wandering off.

    Oh, and one thing I didn't like was the PwwP. Shrugging the prophecy off as a simple mistranslation kinda disappointed me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2005
  13. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    Since I've not yet finished the book I didn't read any of your posts. But I wanted to say that I think Cersei has flipped her lid. She's living in conspiracy theory, phsycotic, everyones out to get me land.
     
  14. Aemon Targaryen

    Aemon Targaryen New Member

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    Spoilers!!!! Well you're in this thread arent you?

    I finished the book yesterday. I have to agree with Turin, Cersei is a fool. She's done everything she could to turn Westeros into a military theocracy. Martin made me sympathetic to Cersei in the earlier books, she was a mother protecting her children and she had been shuttled around and abused. But she is completely gone. Clegane got less then he deserved but sending Lady Falyse and the others to Qyburn. That gave me shudders

    The Brienne chapters were pretty...useless when viewed through a strict plot point of view. But I think it added some good depth to the storyline. I didn't mind the backstory at all. I think the word she shouted might have been Arya, to tell Stoneheart she is still alive somewhere.

    The Greyjoy chapters were a bit tedious to me. I really don't like any of them. *shrug*

    The Dorne chapters YES FINALLY AWESOME. I've been waiting for them for the longest time, the revelations of the Martel conspiracy with the Targaryens (Arriene to marry Viserys? Brilliant) Other stuff I can't remember right now. But so much stuff just clicked.

    Samwell: Nicely done, a good set-up. The Pate surprise was a good one. Poor Maester Aemon. My namesake :(

    Arya: Good, glad she kept Needle. Very nice character development. I liked the meeting her and Sam had. More about that later

    Jaime: Very good, same track as Storm of Swords really. Liked his refusal to help Cersei. Of course he'll have guilt when he realizes just how bad things are for her. Not that she doesnt deserve it.

    Sansa: From the begining I've liked Sansa, she's a wimp and always does the wrong thing (at least she did before) but I always had sympathy for her. It's good to see her getting some real sense in her. I can't wait to see how things work out with the heir to Arryn.

    One criticism I had (aside from the slow moving plot and some unecessary bits) was about the chapter headings. Martin should have called Arys' chapters .Arys. and Asha's, Asha and so on. It was just pointless to break the style he had done it before.
    Also: The lesbian scene with Cersei and Taena was just stupid, another case of an author living out his fantasies with his writing. he could have done the same scene with more taste. Keep that smut in Harlequin.
     
  15. Appaliq

    Appaliq No One

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    Where to start? I finished yesterday, finally. I have to agree with everyone when they said it's slowed down a lot and wasn't as great. But a mediorce Martin is a good book.

    Cersei drove me up the wall. After two or three of her "If Tywin could see me now!" rants I wanted to strangle her. Suffice to say when she got thrown in the cell and abandoned by Jaime I was rejoicing. I always sort of liked Cersei for being the woman on the front line. This time around, she was such a nuissance.
    Also, Maggy the Frog...that seemed so random. Why haven't we heard about this life altering story before? For awhile I thought maybe Dany was the younger queen in the prophecy, but I guess it really was Margery.
    Also, I still don't know what to think about Taena. I'm not sure we've seen the last of her.

    Brienne's chapters were odd. I can understand why Martin killed her off, neither Sansa nor Arya really need saving anymore. Anyone know what the last word she screamed was? I'm guessing 'Jaime'. Also, I KNEW Gendry would be back! I love the Bull.

    Arya's chapters were interesting, but eh. I'm still contemplating what "blind" means.

    Go Sansa! Petyr said something like "With Cat's looks and my brains, you could rule the world" (obviously not a direct quote) and it really opened me up to the idea that Sansa may do great things.

    I could really care less about the Seastone Chair. I know everyone loves Asha, but Theon was the only Greyjoy I was ever concerned about.

    Glad Martin wrote more about Rhaegar. It was interesting to see Cersei's view on him. She was a little bit like Sansa in that "love struck" way. And Martin mentioned something about Robert and Rhaegar both fighting for the woman they loved. *swoon* :)

    Too much to think on. I'm glad to have some new material to brood over for awhile.
     
  16. Aemon Targaryen

    Aemon Targaryen New Member

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    I think Dany is the young Queen, even if Margery is eliminated, Cersei will eventually be brought down by Dany's return. I don't think Cersei is finished just yet, she's screwed now but i think she'll figure out some way to get out of it. We never heard the story before because no one alive knew about it except for Cersei. Maggy has been mentioned before, when the Spicer's were first introduced.
    She's not dead yet. I think the word she shouted (as I said before) was Arya. Or something else that would make Stoneheart cut them down.
    I think he meant literally blind. It was punishment for taking a life and upsetting the balance. Arya killed Daeron, not Cat.
    Sansa has always been one of my favorites. :D
    Agreed.
    That's what I thought too, but the woman Rhaegar and Robert were fighting over was (in my opinion) Lyanna Stark. I'll elaborate with evidence if you want.
     
  17. Appaliq

    Appaliq No One

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    Oh, I know. I've read all the Citadel Prophecies. I was really hoping there would be some mention of Lyanna in this book, but alas. We have to wait.
     
  18. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    The major speculation on the aSoIaF boards (asoiaf.westeros.org) is that the word was "sword." Cat told them to choose "noose" or "sword," and Brienne said that she couldn't make that choice. Default choice was noose, obviously, so the word is probably "sword".

    The major objections to "Sansa" "Jaime" and "Arya" is that GRRM said it was a word, not a name, and GRRM doesn't need to use cheap tricks to make us think it's a word when it's really a name.
     
  19. Aemon Targaryen

    Aemon Targaryen New Member

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    Hmm, point granted.

    Also I'd like to just say that I didn't like the chapter headings in this book. (the Dorne and Iron Islands chapters in particular). I don't see why he didn't just use the names like he did before. It was annoying.
    That was my little peeve with it.
     
  20. Turgon883

    Turgon883 New Member

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    hmmm...you know i've thought about this too.....the more i've thought the more i think that it's gotta be some super simple obvious word that everyone is just overlooking.....lol