Online vs Real Life

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by S.J. Faerlind, Sep 23, 2012.

  1. Stormborn

    Stormborn Well-Known Member

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    I'm probably nicer online.

    I always think that people judge me by my looks/weird quirks, and it makes me a bit reserved against people.
    I'm really not shy or anything, I just don't have a clue how to socialize with people. Lol!

    I kind of prefer my horses to people irl.
     
  2. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    But it's like anything else in life, you become better and more confident in social situations by actually doing it. And I don't mean with friends and whatnot, but with total strangers and people you don't know very well. In victorian times if you were of a certain class you were taught how to behave in social gatherings... conversation was sort of an art form that you needed to survive. The first thing you notice about people who are comfortable in any gathering, is they know how to carry a conversation and how to listen.

    We talk more than we do almost anything else, to shy away from it is insane.
    http://www.angelpig.net/victorian/etiquette_conversation.html
     
  3. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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  4. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't Victorian prejudices and the class system I was commenting on, it was that conversation was a very necessary part of life back then. Here's a great article in the Economist about the art of conversation...
    http://www.economist.com/node/8345491
     
  5. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    I did actually know that from your post Sparrow and thanks for posting both articles. The ironic thing is that much of the advice for having good conversations that they give can also be applied to internet conversations such as the one we're having right now. An example:

    "The conversation of the French salons and dinner tables became as stylised as a ballet. The basic skills brought to the table were expected to include politesse (sincere good manners), esprit (wit), galanterie (gallantry), complaisance (obligingness), enjouement (cheerfulness) and flatterie. More specific techniques would be required as the conversation took flight. A comic mood would require displays of raillerie (playful teasing), plaisanterie (joking), bons mots (epigrams), traits and pointes (rhetorical figures involving “subtle, unexpected wit”, according to Benedetta Craveri, a historian of the period), and, later, persiflage (mocking under the guise of praising). Even silences had to be finely judged. The Duc de La Rochefoucauld distinguished between an “eloquent” silence, a “mocking” silence and a “respectful” silence. The mastery of such “airs and tones”, he said, was “granted to few”. "

    You can find examples of all of these things in various threads here on TFF.

    This part of your more recent article is especially interesting:

    In 2006 an American essayist, Stephen Miller, published a book called “Conversation: A History of a Declining Art”, in which he worried that “neither digital music players nor computers were invented to help people avoid real conversation, but they have that effect.”

    I suppose you could make an argument for that statement for computer-related activities that you can do solo but where interaction with others is involved, conversation (sometimes known as spam :)) always creeps into it. Humans are social creatures and the internet has given us the option of a much broader range of social contacts. Since we can't talk face to face, we're even finding ways of incorporating body language and facial expressions into our internet socializing:

    :) :mad: :confused: :halo:
    *looks around with shifty eyes* *taps foot impatiently*

    as examples.
    I would argue that we're not losing the art of conversation... the language is just evolving with the changing times.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2012
  6. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    I have no doubt that we're experiencing the evolution of human communication, but to what end?

    The studies I've read about concerning social media seem to shed a negative light on the rather pointless interaction that springs from facebook and twitter. I think it's the act of self-disclosure that becomes so addictive, and that you have an audience for such confessions. I don't think there's anything wrong with facebook and twitter, so long as they don't become a substitute for real conversation and interaction.
     
  7. Heaven's Cloud

    Heaven's Cloud Active Member

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    Those studies sound like they might be interesting to investigate. There have always been antisocial people, long before facebook or twitter came around. I think we probably see more of them on the internet, because some may find it an easier way to communicate with the outside world. However, many of these people still find it difficult to communicate on the internet. There are plenty of people who maintain a healthy social life, and continue to use social media sites at the same time, and who use these inventions in a positive way. If all social media sites were suddenly done away with, there might be some increase in real life social interaction on a world wide scale, but it wouldn't do away with social ineptitude.

    Through experience, I've found that there is a problem with interaction online, and that is that so many people seem to be pretending to be someone that they are not. I once made a friend who was doing this, and eventually she began calling my house (which seemed fine and harmless at first) But she got sloppy, and her lies began to show. This went on for about a month until I finally called her on it, and demanded that she get on webcam with me. When she refused, I cut all ties to her. The extreme anonymity that can be achieved on the net is the biggest social problem I've come across. I don't blame the net, or social media sites for that anymore than I blame the telephone. I blame the person for being devious and conniving, and for being so unwilling to do what it takes to make their life worth living that they will waste the time of so many other people.
     
  8. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    Now this is an interesting question. Will "virtual reality" ever completely replace "RL" and what will that mean for humanity? Sci fi explores this all the time. Just look at films like "The Matrix".

    If you can find those studies, post them... I'd like to see them too. :)

    I don't agree that virtual conversations are "pointless" simply because people have them over the internet Sparrow and I wonder why you think that. Conversation can be pointless in RL as well. I think it's the substance of a conversation that makes it pointless, not how and where you have it. I have countless conversations that I would consider pointless in RL all the time: "How are you?" "I'm fine, how are you?" "I'm good." "Bad weather we're having today..." "Yeah".... you get the idea.

    As for the captive audience for self-disclosure on social media... I don't agree with that either. Nobody has to read your twitter posts or your FB page. They don't have to read your forum comments or blog either. You can post as much as you like, but that doesn't necessarily mean anyone will listen. People choose to participate in those conversations at their own discretion... just like they can choose whether or not to listen to you rant on a street corner in RL.

    Internet anonymity is a mask that can make it easier to deceive people and your experience certainly bears that out Cloud. The same can be said about people in RL too though. I was shocked to learn that someone who passed away in my community was a convicted child molester. I had no idea of that before he died and they say that in small towns everybody knows everybody. That isn't necessarily true as my experience shows. I agree with your point: being on the internet doesn't change someone's philosophies on how to treat other people. I don't think it's any safer to interact with people in RL than it is online really. People are people... whether in RL or online. If they're going to be dangerous or deceitful there's nothing you can really do about that.
     
  9. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    The problem with Science Fiction as a predictor of the future is that it has a poor track record.
    For all his legendary status, Isaac Asimov had spaceships crossing vast amounts of time and space without the aid of computers. In one story a captain whips out an analog slide rule and references a star map. In fact I'm not aware of any scifi story written before the advent of computers that had predicted anything comparable to the world wide web.
    I do like the Retrieval Artist novels by Kristine Kathryn Rusch. Folks have a simple chip embedded in them and they can turn it on or off at will, depending on their need for the net. When you google something it scrolls across your line of sight, sort of like a heads-up display on a fighter jet.
     
  10. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

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    Just a bone to pick about using the phrase antisocial in this manner. Lots of people through it around like it means a person is shy or socially awkward when it really means somebody has something against society or other people, like a complex where they think they are superior and everybody else is rot or sheep or something dumb.

    I myself in most social settings keep to myself and I am like a dead log unless I'm approached. I can converse easily with people I know or am in a proper setting with.

    But I'm really just nitpicking the phrase. I'll get more on the current topic. I feel like the internet as people have kind of already said, enables anonymity and lets people have a personal sense they can easily say more absolutely insane things for better or for worse. Sometimes it might be malicious and harmful to relationships, sometimes it might be edgy humor to help people deal with a current issue. Lots of this is subjective though because people use the internet in different ways for different things.

    For example, many people use facebook to talk about sports scores and let all their friends know they are in bible club and are in an intimate relationship etc. I myself use it to intentionally fill people's feeds with nonsense and aggressive humor that will get them to slow down, maybe think, or realize how dumb half of the things they do on facebook are. So I really use facebook as my creative catharsis for any bad ideas I have and less for social reasons.

    Also I can get behind Sparrow on augmented reality stuff being cool, my worst fear of that stuff is advertising overlaying our vision all the time. Bleh.
     
  11. Heaven's Cloud

    Heaven's Cloud Active Member

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    Good catch. I didn't realize it at the time, but I did use it in an inaccurate fashion (which I'm sure will is the type of thing that will happen often the more I post.)
    Feel free to correct me anytime. I had always thought that antisocial meant something else, probably because it has been thrown around that way so often.
     
  12. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    That reminds me of the Will Ferrell comedy, Talladega Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby... where he plays a NASCAR driver. Like all NASCAR drivers he's got advertising plastered over every square inch of his race car; his downfall comes when they've ran out of free space on the car for any additional advertisements, so they put a Nabisco Fig Newtons ad on his front windshield... he of course can't see out his windshield very well and has a horrible crash... which ends up like many Will Ferrel movies, he strips down naked, and is running around the race track thinking he's on fire.
     
  13. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    I'd agree with you there: I don't think sci fi predicts the future accurately but I do think it makes us think about the possible consequences of certain outcomes and that certainly applies to this debate. I suppose it all boils down to what makes us human in the end. Are we defined by our physical form/biology or is there more to it than that? If virtual reality ever becomes more important than RL, biology is kind of irrelevant. I say that because in theory, maintaining a human consciousness in virtual reality might be considered a form of immortality if we can ever take biology out of the equation. Frankly, it scares me to think that a human consciousness could be held here by technology forever. At least in RL you know there's a finite end to that. That concept has huge implications for humanity: virtual relationships = no kids = static population and possibly extinction eventually.... scary! I think sci fi is valuable because it makes us think about these things and consider more carefully how we approach our future as a species.
     
  14. Dreamscaper

    Dreamscaper Royal Hamster Wrangler

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    I'm generally the same between online and irl, but I am much more likely to show emotion or lash out online than I am irl. though I will say that I tend to be much more blunt in person.
     
  15. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    Interesting... why do you suppose that is?
     
  16. Dreamscaper

    Dreamscaper Royal Hamster Wrangler

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    That whole being punished in one form or another if I did do it, would do it I guess.
     
  17. JNK

    JNK King of tards

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    another thread with too many words for a tard
     
  18. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    I guess that sort of proves Cloud's observation of people perceiving a lack of consequences for their actions online, making them more likely to take certain risks because of anonymity. We wear avatar masks but how much of our true thoughts and feelings do we mask compared to what we do in RL when it's supposedly "safer" to express ourselves online?
     
  19. Dreamscaper

    Dreamscaper Royal Hamster Wrangler

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    I suppose so, but its not necessarily a complete lack of consequences either, especially on a forum where one can know and be known, not to mention the banhammer. The difference is that nobody here is able to get in my face and yell at me for not having the emotional capacity of a boulder.
     
  20. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    Your post made me laugh Dreamscaper because it's so true! I find it way easier to deal with a confrontation online than I would face to face. Besides.... if you post something stupid in a fit of anger you can always edit it later (or a mod will!)...lol. Once you've said something face to face, you can't really take it back.