Official "Waiting for ADWD" Thread

Discussion in 'A Song of Ice and Fire' started by Liadan, Jun 4, 2010.

  1. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

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    Interesting, Lia. I lurk at Westeros regularly (I do have an account there under this name but I've made maybe 20 posts ever so I'm definitely a lurker); I've read plenty of Linda's posts and have a lot of respect for her contribution to the fandom but I agree that that's out of line. Personally I'm in favour of leaving GRRM alone to write the book - the pressure must be incredible and I can't help but think that that must be part of what's delaying it. The man can't exactly produce top-quality writing on the demand of thousands of frenzied fans.

    That being said, posting one-star Amazon reviews on a book that hasn't yet been published is bad form. I can understand why she reported the post even if I don't agree with the vehemence of her response. Questioning or criticising GRRM doesn't make you a troll but those readers could have picked a better place to vent. I also think that Amazon shouldn't have allowed any reviews on an unpublished book; it's too easy for angry readers to abuse the review feature.

    How is your own writing going by the way? :) I noticed App asking for copies of your work on Facebook and was tempted to do the same - I'm currently in the middle of a highly tedious two-month long exam period.
     
  2. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Lol, I've started regularly lurking Westeros, too (I've also made an account but I'm too intimidated to post there). And yeah, I agree with you that the pressure is no doubt contributing to the delay. Poor GRRM. :(

    The thing is, I agree with the gist of what she said, which amounts to "Don't review an unpublished book" and "leave him alone." But the fact that she turned it into an ad hominem attack was unnecessary, IMO. We need more Neil Gaiman posts. :D

    My own writing is--going. I'm still going to write nonfiction essays on the side, but I'm also actually attempting to work more consistently on the fantasy story that's been more-or-less going on since I was 13. (Note, however, that I'm on version 5 at this point. lol) Last semester was fairly unproductive though, mostly due to personal reasons and writing two 25-page research papers. :rolleyes: Won't miss that at all...

    Also, highly tedious two-month long exam period does NOT sound fun. D: Good luck with that! Are you still in Italy, btw? What are you studying?
     
  3. bloodfiredeath

    bloodfiredeath Die by the Sword

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    I liked the Amazon"discussion" and agree with Mr Slaughter to a degree.
    I often wonder whether or not he is waiting for the perfect marketing opportunity to release the next book (say after the new HBO series becomes a hit!!) or whether he just cannot sort out the plot tangles and has given up!! Or perhaps he is a victim of his own ego/fame. Personally I am not going to judge him, and just hope the series comes to a conclusion at some stage. I liked the Brandon Sanderson idea!! :p


    I had forgotten about that site!!

    I know the feeling, I have had an account there for 5 years, but have made very few posts. The level of knowledge of the story by some fans weirds me out a bit! I mean there is being a fan and being totally obsessed!!
     
  4. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

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    Ugh... that sounds horrific. I'm intrigued by your fantasy story though - I'd love to read it whenever it sees the light of day (or before; if you ever want a proofreader or some feedback drop me a message :)). Much as I love reading fantasy, I've never quite had the imagination or diligence to try writing some. I've played with the thought of trying to translate some Italian fantasy as a project though since there are quite a few authors here that seem never to have made it into English. That would at least take care of the lack of imagination problem, though the lack of diligence might still be an issue...

    Yup, still in Italy; I'll be here until July. I'm studying in the political science department which sort of incorporates history for some strange reason (most of my modules are history). Thankfully will be finishing with the exams this week at which point I'll be heading to Rome for a week... the advantages of Italy do outweigh even the frustrating exam system :D.

    Or maybe he's just got writer's block? He did have problems with plot tangles at one point and that is apparently resolved or nearly so. I don't like the Brandon Sanderson speculation myself - I understand people are frustrated but suggesting GRRM might die before the book is finished is tasteless IMO.

    Actually, I think the level of obsession there is totally acceptable :D. I just get intimidated in a bigger forum like that.
     
  5. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Lol, don't tempt me to abuse that offer! ;) I'm always looking for feedback, but the problem is that my progress is unfortunately so SLOW. I think I want to wait until I'm a little further on (aka have more than only 50 pages of writing :rolleyes:) before I do abuse your kindness. (Yeah, I suffer from that same lack of diligence myself...)Translating Italian fantasy sounds great, though! It's always nice to see works that aren't written from a strictly American/Canadian/British (and occasionally Australian, which more-or-less fits in with the other three anyway) viewpoint.

    Man, I'm jealous of you! Studying in Italy sounds great. What exactly are you majoring/concentrating in? (I don't know European terms for it.) Political science? And if so, what interested you in it in the first place? Yay for exams ending though. What're you planning to do in Rome? And what's the exam system like in Italy as compared to Ireland? (That is where you're originally from, right?) And sorry for the bombardment of questions. I just find foreign school systems to be really interesting, lol.

    Much as I hate to ruin the "DGAF" image I try to project on the internet, I do agree with this. The man's a writer, not a machine. Plus, speculating about his demise--even with the argument that it's inevitable--is tasteless, especially when he spent the holidays this year in the hospital. D:

    I'm in between you two on this one--the obsession occasionally freaks me out, but I'm definitely intimidated in a bigger forum as well. I did finally make my first post(s) though in an Arya thread that's somehow devolved into arguing about her psychology. That, I feel I can competently argue about, even if I can't name every character in the book that's ever been mentioned...
     
  6. bloodfiredeath

    bloodfiredeath Die by the Sword

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    Sorry I possibly was a bit facetious in my comments there!!


    I still don't know, that level of commitment is still freaky to me!! :p

    I reiterate my comment from before!! I had no idea about his illness etc, I am a fairly poor fan boi to be honest!! I tend to have a high level of patience!! I can wait another 5 years for a book...I have been reading Jordan since about 93, so I have learnt to wait!!
    Still too scared to post in serious threads on westeros!!
     
  7. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

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    Sure, but do feel free to take me up on the offer; I actually have a fair bit of free time this year :).

    I'm doing this degree in European Studies. It's a different system in Ireland - we choose a specific course in first year and, although we usually have a good few options within the course we've chosen (I keep opting for history over sociology or political modules), our path is pretty much laid down at that point. To the best of my knowledge it's more focused than the American system but less broad - I couldn't decide I wanted to do a module in maths or English literature, for example, and if I changed my mind and wanted to study one of those subjects I'd have to start from first year again. As for what interested me - being able to study two languages to a high level, but the degree not consisting of just those two languages, the compulsory year abroad in third year :D, the big emphasis on history of thought/ideas and how these ideas have affected history...

    The Italian exam system... is bizarre. It's almost all oral exams and you can choose when to sit them. Each subject can be sat at any one of three dates per exam session - for example, I sat my political philosophy exam two weeks ago but I could have chosen to sit it tomorrow or some date in February. This also applies to any exams that are written. If you fail or aren't happy with your mark you can choose to retake it at any other date, at any other exam session (there is no limit on the number of times you can sit the same exam). By comparison, in Ireland we only get to take our (always written) exams once, at a fixed date, and our marks are a combination of the exam and written assignments throughout the year. This is something Italians find really weird because other than a thesis at the end of their degree, Italian students never hand up any written work (the students in the one class I have where the exam is written were horrified at the thought of writing in their exam). Yes, this is why exam sessions take two months, although if you time it right you can get everything done in the first month and then relax, possibly even take a trip to Rome...

    As for Rome, I'm not really sure what I'm going do to yet. Just bought a guidebook and have been flipping through it - I know I'll be a serious history-tourist-freak for at least some of it, plus it's a gorgeous city, I can draw on my (generally ignored) inner Irish Catholic for a visit to the Vatican, I'll be with a group of friends and Ireland are coincidentally playing a rugby match the week we're there. Beyond that, planning is overrated ;).

    No worries on the questions; ask away :). Sorry if i've misrepresented the American system above, I know a bit about it thanks to talking to Alchy but I find it quite confusing since ours is very simple (to me, anyway).

    Oh I know; it's not like you yourself were suggesting he might die - it's just an attitude I've come across elsewhere that I really don't like.

    [ETA: I just had a look at that Arya thread, Lia. I take it you're Ira?]
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2011
  8. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    @ BFD: lol, I understand the "poor fanboy" part all too well.



    Welp, I'll probably try to send you something in a few weeks. ^_^


    That's a fascinating course, honestly, and I understand why you'd want to study it--except that I <3 literature and writing, haha. It's just funny because I did an independent study last semester (one of those 25 page research papers) titled "History of Ideas" which was more-or-less an excuse to study more modern fantasy, and ended up examining Milton's Paradise Lost's influence on CS Lewis's Perelandra (space trilogy, book 2). However, it does sound rather similar to the Canadian school system, at least from what I know--I have a friend who was in music school and ended up going to creative writing (one point to my side), and is more-or-less having to start most of her schooling over.

    Wow. That's certainly different, but kind of cool. (And thank you for educating me on it!) American (and Canadian) marks/grades are based on the same system as yours, though it depends on teacher to teacher; for example, in my Nietzsche class, my grade is based entirely on written papers. We don't have oral exams at all, unless it's in language classes, as far as I know, although you do have to defend your thesis once you go for your master's, etc. I do find it interesting that you can retake it over and over again--it actually kind of just reinforces my idea that American students have it easy. If the opportunity for retaking is constantly there, then the exams must be insanely difficult... at least according to my logic.

    Oh, rugby. You Europeans and your silly sports. (Americans have what we call "football," but it's admittedly the girly version of rugby--I mean, seriously, compare the equipment of rugby (none) to the football armor...)

    I've more or less apostatized from the Catholic Church myself at this point, but I'd still love to see the Vatican. You grew up in Ireland, so it's different for you, but I come from the States, and the idea of Europe and its famed buildings are so different from the American reality that just the idea of being able to see Rome, Paris, etc. get me excited. D: I demand that you take pictures! What are you interested in besides the Vatican, though?

    I'm part of the American system and I have yet to figure out why I can still graduate on time after changing my major twice. (Admittedly, I did have "AP credits", which put me a year ahead of schedule, but still.)

    Guilty as charged. I'm assuming you figured it out from the minimal postcount. My style of writing isn't THAT recognizable, is it? D:
     
  9. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

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    Great! I'll PM you my e-mail address since I almost never use the e-mail listed on my profile anymore.

    That sounds like an awesome assignment :D.

    I actually came to the opposite conclusion when I got my first (and so far only) exam result: 28/30, which just about put me in the top half of the class. In Ireland, 93% pretty much exists only as a theoretical possibility (except for subjects like maths where there is an objectively "right" answer), and if anyone did get that it would be for work so good as to be instantly publishable. Here, it's half the class. *shrug* It could easily be different for other subjects but in my experience it's not insanely difficult.

    Heh, I know that only about 10 countries in the world actually play rugby but it's very popular in Ireland thanks to being the only sport we're actually good at. (Well, that and boxing. Clearly we're only good at the violent sports...)

    Oh, I will definitely be taking pictures. My Italy photo albums already take up about 2.5GB on my hard drive since I get about as excited as you describe by just how gorgeous Italy is. Ireland has some nice buildings but it's a bit of a cultural backwater by comparison - even the smallest Italian town has a least one church that's utterly stunning, like this one in a tiny mountain village (photo not actually taken by me, because the photo I did take doesn't do it justice). As for Rome, the place most want to see in the forum, which is my most vivid memory from the 24 hours I spent there when I was 10. It's basically an archaeological site right in the middle of the city, near the Colisseum, and I remember it as being one of the most magical places I've ever seen. I also want to see Michelangelo's artwork at the Sistine Chapel, the Pantheon and some of the famous places I only know from photos and films like the Trevi fountain.

    That was the big giveaway, yes. Possibly augmented the fact that no-one else on that page used a semi-colon correctly ;).
     
  10. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    All right, sounds great. :D (Got your PM btw, but attempting to finish at least one more chapter while also working on a short story idea that came out of the blue. >_>)


    It was, actually. I highly enjoyed it! Best of all, I got to choose the topic of the paper myself, with only some guidance from my professor. Bad part: I want my paper back, and I don't think I'll ever get it, because the professor is one of those English professors who have difficulty with emails. :rolleyes:


    Wow, really? That sounds as bad as the inflated American grading system. It's stupidly easy to get an A in most university classes--but then again, I'm attending a public state university, as opposed to the Ivy League/Stanford, or UCLA/UC Berkeley (which are also public state universities, but ones with fairly high standards). Out of curiosity, though, what counts as an "A" in Ireland? Is it 90%+, or 80%+? (From what I recall, I think either Canadian high school or college in BC employs the 80%+ system.) Congratulations on doing well though! :D


    Either that, or Irishmen love hot, sweaty sports that involve being all over each other... >_>


    Oh my goodness--I can see why you'd categorize Ireland as a "bit of a cultural backwater" compared to that, lol. All the same, though, I doubt that your "historical cities" are the ones that are populated with more-or-less modern stuff, with the oldest stuff dating back to the late 1700s... (AKA: Screw America, I wanna visit Europe. >=() That church is absolutely gorgeous--I can't believe that it's in just a "small Italian town." The forum looks incredible as well, as does the Pantheon, but the fountain is, IMO, the "exception" to all three of those photos; where they're majestic and grand and awe-inspiring, the fountain seems almost... softer, and more feminine. Definitely need to visit Rome. >_>

    Lol! Much better than being known for the person who can't use a semi-colon correctly, right? :D
     
  11. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

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    Heh, is that down to literary snobbishness or technical inability?

    70%+ actually (at university level; a high school "A" is 85%), and that is really hard to get - only one person out of my class of 40-ish generally bright people got a First (as it's called) last year. The failure threshold is 40% though so people don't tend to fail either, they just cluster around the average grades of about 55-65%. Our grading system seems to be based on the widest scale imaginable, from "blank page" to "instantly publishable classic". We still get the annual mutterings about "grade inflation" at exam season each year though, I think that's a near universal phenomenon.

    Distinctly possible ;).

    Softer and more feminine? Good call - Anita Ekberg agrees with you!
     
  12. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Technical inability. A lot of them are old dudes in their 70s.


    Lmao, nice. Yeah, I guess everyone does like to grump about the same things. ;) But jeez, your grading system's VERY different from ours--although I didn't quite get what you meant by "our grading system seems o be based on the widest scale imaginable."


    Well, both the men AND the women aren't complaining, so... win/win?


    Haha, nice.
     
  13. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

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    I basically meant that a system in which most students' grades are mid-range and within about 20 percentage points of each other allows for a lot of (mostly theoretical) room on either side; hence a "wide" scale.

    Although in retrospect it's possible my point makes no sense. There are reasons I didn't choose to study maths, and "wide scale" may be the kind of phrase that makes a mathematician splutter in fury at the mathematical deficiencies of today's youth ;).

    [Incidentally, scrap anything I said about Italian exams giving high marks to most students. Yesterday's modern history exam had an attrition rate that wouldn't have looked out of place in the 30-years war.]
     
  14. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Ouch. That's unfortunate.

    I don't mean to be a complete ass here, but I could not help but laugh at this person's post:

    Because, you know, this story never kills off main characters.
     
  15. bloodfiredeath

    bloodfiredeath Die by the Sword

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    As much as Martin loves to kill people off, there may be some truth in that post.
    Dany is obviously a major story arc and pivotal to the main plot.
    We all know she is going to take back Westeros at some stage and then pit her fire against the others and their old skool icy ways!!
    The big question is, what will happen on her return? Who will she end up hooking up with? will it be an Ironborn, a bastard at the wall (possibly related somehow!!) or a golden fool..be it man or woman!! lol.
    So many options...and so many minor characters that have the option of becoming major players as the Pandora's box of Westeros secrets and power plays are slowly enacted.
    It will be a hell of a ride...I cant wait!!
     
  16. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

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    Optimistic guy, yeah. Although I do think it would be very unlikely for Dany to die in any book but the last so he may be on to something with the "not yet anyway" part. She can't die until she has some meaningful interaction with the other POV characters after all or her story would be a complete waste (although that will presumably happen in ADWD, removing that particular authorial protection...).
     
  17. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    There's some truth to that--that she can't die until she has meaningful interaction with other POV characters--but at the same time, this is the guy that's known to be unpredictable. I mean, until GRRM came along, Ned would have had "authorial protection" just because the author spent the most time on him.
     
  18. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Aye even in some other book series the killing off of a character often comes with clauses - Malazan likes to mess with you that way - killing a character and then bringing them back in part or full later (sometimes however - only sometimes ;)).

    GRRM though is about the only author I know to really push the limits of killing off key and popular characters in his books and in a way I really like that - puts you at the edge of your seat unlike most others where you know that - not matter what happens - at least one of the people you like will; without fail; make it through to the end (and any heros death will only be after the great sacrifice at the end of the book anyway).
     
  19. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

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    @ OR: I agree on that; GRRM's willingness to kill characters definitely makes the books more interesting.

    True, but Ned did set in motion some vital parts of the story even if he didn't play the role most of us probably expected him to at the start of AGOT (i.e. the Hero). GRRM is definitely unpredictable and I'm not claiming that Dany is safe forever, but right now it just wouldn't be logical from a storytelling viewpoint to kill her off IMO. In retrospect, though, maybe my suggestion that she was safe until the last book was a bit hasty. I do think she'll be safe enough for ADWD.
     
  20. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Even if Danny is removed early from the story she has still set another "beast" in motion (ie her army and followers to say nothing of the dragons). So even if the beast that she has started loses its head it might well grow another and continue on - or it might fracture and cause a different wave of chaos.

    The dragons as well would be a problem - under someones control or roaming free they are a force unto their own.

    So there is a lot of potential either way and the fact that many would not mind seeing Danny taking a seat of major power puts her at a high risk of suffering an premature death at the hands of GRRM ;)