Obesity

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by §oul Bane, Mar 25, 2006.

  1. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    What is this shenanigans you speak of? Cookies with vitamins?!?

    If you have an hour this was quite an interesting show - Why Aren't Thin People Fat? They got 10 skinnies and force fed them for a month.



    From memory, as well as genetic advantages whereby some people just process fat better, thin people also STOP EATING. I know personally, I feel sick if I overeat.
     
  2. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    The cookies are called WhoNu?...http://www.whonucookies.com/

    Since I've been eating them I've been able to remember my dreams, something I've rarely been able to do most of my life. I'm guessing it's the B vitamins in the cookies and perhaps because it's baked in I'm able to metabolize them better. Not only am I recalling my dreams, but damn they are vivid. Last week I had a bizarre dream I was walking along the edge of a stream and I could taste the air, hear the birds and feel the warmth of the sun.

    It was like I was in a tampon commercial.
     
  3. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    Re: is Fat-ism the new racism?

    Yeah. You know, this is what I'd call circumstantial evidence. For what I understand, dieting contradicts the internal workings of the body. Whether long-term resolve to contradict your body mentally lies within the grasp of the average human is up for debate. I have heard scientist argue that it is an acceptable demand, I've heard scientist say it isn't. Statistics, however, don't rule in favour of those who seek to lose sufficient weight to drop - say - from BMI 35 to 25, especially in the long term.

    Oh, here's a tried and tested get rich quick scheme:

    - Write book about [suppletion] diet.
    - Get rich quick

    Gogogo! :D

    Yeah.... good for you!

    ... how about a double-blind random control?
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  4. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    I honestly don't know what to think on this issue. I know extremely skinny people who eat nothing but sugar and crap and never gain an ounce and I know someone else who works out every day for probably 2-3 hours who most people would call overweight. Though her diet probably isn't perfect, it isn't bad either. I think there's enough evidence to suggest that genetics, mental factors and environment all play their role making it an extremely complicated issue. From all the factors involved only one thing is clear to me: no one approach to weight management is going to work for everybody.
     
  5. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Marketing and such influences work just as well on kids as they do upon adults. Heck do I have to bring up the "sex sells" marketing concept ;). Marketing targets specific groups be they young or old and can indeed have a major influence upon people. Also notice that it wasn't just marketing but also environmental influences that I mentioned.

    My point is that whilst people should be able to regulate their own eating and also able to resist these temptations its also important to realise that one is fighting a much harder fight than one should have to do so naturally speaking. It puts a strain on the body in the immediate which makes it that much harder to resist and that much harder to counter.

    Now socially this is recognised slowly which is why there are now attempts at healthy advertising and an increased media focus upon it. If advertising didn't work then the reverse kind of advertising and social presentation wouldn't work either. It's slow change however and its hindered by the fact that many companies are built around providing food - so it requires a big social structural change to take place if you're going to remove the "demand to eat".


    Note that this clearly does not outline the only influences upon people and that, in the end, those most seriously affected are more likely under other influences as well, but it is a valid contributing factor.
     
  6. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Re: is Fat-ism the new racism?



    There's no debating it, Americans are fat and our obesity rate is climbing.

    Why is it that other countries have obesity rates that are half, and in many cases way less than half that of the USA? Unless you believe evolution has taken a wrong turn in America, we Yanks have the same physiology and same brains as the folks who manage quite well at keeping their body weight within a healthy range. We're talking about cultural difference now, and they can be overcome.

    Go ahead and google 'The Great Depression', and check out the old photographs of that era... you'll hardly see anyone whose obese. The folks you'll see are not only a proper body weight, they have an edge to them, and in the good sense of the word... they look 'hungry', they're sharp, intense.
     
  7. Dreamscaper

    Dreamscaper Royal Hamster Wrangler

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    I think those who do not have a lot of income are also dependent on lower quality and more unhealthy foods as well since the good food tends to spoil quicker and be more expensive. The obsession with 'sfuff' I think changes the priorities enough that the new shiny electronics take precedence over eating healthy.
     
  8. Emelie

    Emelie Queen of darkness

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    I was just about to say that. Most people with low income eat crappy and fatty food. It's cheaper to go to mcdonalds than go buy a salad. I'm guessing that might be a big reason for many people, and especially in america. I saw this documentary that showed that some places in america had stores that sold no fruits or veggies whatsoever... If both economy and accessibility is against you. No wonder people eat unhealthy food.

    Back in the days it was the nobles that were fat, showing they had money and food on their tables, nowadays its the other way around, rich people can afford healthy food, gymcards, and they usually actually have time to work out. While poor people usually tend to be overweight.
     
  9. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: is Fat-ism the new racism?

    Same with viewing photos and videos of Australia as recently as the 1980s. 70s and earlier is even more stark. Slim, slender, healthy looking people that gave rise to the "bronzed Aussie" reputation for being fit and healthy outdoors types. But I believe we are now 2nd or 3rd in the world for obesity rates, behind America and possibly the UK. Cultural changes to moving away from sport and physical activity, as well as moving away from homemade meals and into fast easy rubbish - these can be overcome. It's not like someone's put calories in the nation's water supply.
     
  10. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    Blaming obesity on poverty is only half right. Sure there are probably poor people have no choice. I understand that. But most obese people are not poor. So you can't just cry 'fat people are fat only because society makes them so!'
     
  11. Emelie

    Emelie Queen of darkness

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    Course there are never only one reason to blame, never only poverty or laziness or DNA or bad food. But some things do help to contribute.
     
  12. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    There's also the time factor involved in eating healthy and that's a real problem for some people. A lot of people I know that work full time rush in from work and have to feed themselves (and possibly kids as well) before rushing back out the door to some other activity. When you're in a hurry, it's way easier to throw a frozen pizza in the oven than it is to cook a healthy meal that involves chopping up vegetables for example.
    There are ways around that but they often involve planning ahead, something that not everyone is good at doing. Plus when you're busy you just want something convenient so you can move on to so-called "more important" stuff. Planning ahead involves a lot of work.
    The other factor that comes into play with being over-scheduled is that it necessitates bolting your food down as fast as possible. If I remember correctly I read an article once that people can miss the satiety signal when they eat their food too fast and often end up eating more than they need to because of that.
     
  13. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    SJ - lets not also forget that the role of women in society has changed too. Now a days its not unusual for both partners to be working away from the home in regular jobs to bring in the money. This is a massive social change as it means that one has lost the housewife from many homes. As such there isn't anyone at home to do the preparations for the meal times and when both come in at the end of the day neither of them wants to sit down and then spend 30mins to an hour cooking up a meal.

    That I think has a major effect not just on the selection of food to cook but also hinders attempts to promote more healthy home cooking.
     
  14. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    All it is, is excuses.
    These days there's all kinds of frozen foods you just pop into the microwave that are plenty healthy for you. And it takes nothing to peal a banana, or slice a tomato, or open a can of soup. And let's talk SOUP! They've got all kinds of soups that are basically a healthy meal in a can... you don't even need a can opener anymore! Just pull the ring-top like you would a can of soda pop, and wham, an instant later you're eating healthy. There really is no planning involved, just toss out one bad eating habit at a time and replace it with something nutritious and satisfying. I'm fairly active but I don't exercise or go to a gym... I just eat food without a lot of fat in it.
     
  15. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    I`d agree. You almost need two incomes now to achieve what most people accept as a decent standard of living (at least you do here, I wouldn`t know about the rest of the world).
    The other problem with this over here is the fact that nobody seems to get a 9-5 job any more because very few of them exist. With many businesses being open for extended hours, employees have to work all kinds of crazy shifts. My other career is a great example. My shift at work is 10 hours and I have to drive 75 to 90 minutes to get to it. I`m out of the house by 7:15 am and I don`t get home until 8:30 or later depending on how the day goes and traffic. If I worked full time I`d only be cooking one or two days a week.

    I don`t necessarily disagree with you though I would point out that processed foods are generally less healthy and nutritious than fresh foods. Fresh foods take longer to prepare in general. Personally, I recommend using a crock pot if you`re in a hurry. It doesn`t take any longer to throw a package of meat into the crock pot, turn it on and cover it with water in the morning than it does to unwrap a frozen pizza and throw it in the oven after work. It also has the advantage of being ready when you walk in the door and a package of frozen mixed vegetables takes about 5 minutes to heat on the stove too. There are strategies you can use to save time and eat healthy if your schedule is hectic. I think sometimes people just can`t be bothered to think about it.
    I`ll admit that sometimes I`m one of those people. After a long day at work there have occasionally been nights where I`ve had a bowl of cereal for dinner `cause the babysitter has already fed the kids and neither my husband or I can face doing much in the kitchen. :p I take full responsibility for the effect that decision has upon my weight though. The trick is not to do it too often or let it become a habit.
     
  16. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    I think there is a lot to be said about the income debate. Look at all those places like McDonalds, Hungry Jacks, KFC etc. I don't know what it's like in other countries but here many of those places have 'Dollar Menu's' where you can buy food items for simply $1 or $2 or even less sometimes. Compared that to a nice salad from another place and it could be anywhere from $7 - $10. Although, at the same time I have been to fresh food markets in the past and bought enough fruits/vegetables to last me a week for less than $20 so maybe some people don't try hard enough to find cheaper healthier foods.
     
  17. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Cambell's makes "Natural" soups that are basically a meal in a can... the cost is about $1.50 at Walmart, for a nutritional low calorie meal that is quite filling. There's absolutely no excuse for being obese no matter what income bracket people are in, other than out of sheer laziness they can't pour the contents of a can of soup into a bowl and set their microwave to 3 minutes.

    http://www.campbellsoup.com/Products/100Natural/Light/120959
     
  18. JNK

    JNK King of tards

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    Oh I ate that stuff during blackout after hurricane Floyd... quite Ok for canned stuff...
     
  19. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    One thought to consider - do people have a right in itself to be obese?

    Once they have ready access to alternative and affordable "healthy" foods and also had the eduction to allow them to be in a full position of choice on the matter do they have the right to eat as they choose - even if that eating in itself leads them to a resulting heavier than "ideal" weight?

    My view is that barring the extremes where it prevents them from most normal activities (eg walking) and where it is more likely the result of underlying mental health issues; then yes people do have a right to be fat.

    Just as much right as mountain climbers do to risk all climbing a mountain (because its there); as divers do to swim with sharks; as riders to do ride a horse; as you do to get in the car on the way to work (lets face it looking at the stats you're far more likely to get killed doing that than anything else in most peoples lives!).

    I think its important that we remember that fact. Being fat shouldn't be held up as a crime any more than and other of those activities; otherwise we risk removing peoples right to choice and from there its a steady slippery slope of cutting away at those rights till we are all living in bubblewrap.
     
  20. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    When I used to go on two day hikes I'd pack a couple cans of Cambell's Soup in my backpack, pop the top off and eat them cold. The stuff sticks to your ribs and tastes, in my case, way better than mom used to make.