Obesity

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by §oul Bane, Mar 25, 2006.

  1. Emelie

    Emelie Queen of darkness

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    Re: is Fat-ism the new racism?

    Well people love to shame the thing that isnt the norm. Fatshaming, slutshaming etc.

    And the really fun (note sarcasm) part in all this fatshaming, is that most people sort of give comments like "well you're not healthy since you are fat", as an excuse to tell people to lose weight. When the thing is, that someone that has some weight on them can be more healthy than one that's skinny. People just don't see it that way. Most people think Skinny = Healthy, Fat = Unhealthy. Which isnt true, in most cases.


    Right now we have a trend with being fit and eating right. So its the norm at the moment, and anyone outside of it. Will be pushed to fit the mould that society created. Fat people are looked down upon as people with poor character etc. It feels like most people always want to look down on other people in order to feel great themselves.

    And I'm not really sure with the whole fatism is the new racism. It's just general trends that people really want to shove down other people's throat. People hate on way too much. Fat people, 'sluts'/girls, minorities of all kinds; black people, gay people, transgendered people. feminists, too skinny people (eatingdisorderwarning). etc.

    I just wish people would stop the hating on other people no matter how they are or look. It's not all that is important in this world.


    And I guess the whole movie thing; movies generally play on stereotypes, its the funny fat guy, the black guy, the slut, the jock, the nerd. etc. And all of those roles are degrading.
     
  2. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    Re: is Fat-ism the new racism?

    Exactly :)
     
  3. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Re: is Fat-ism the new racism?

    This is just more politically correct bullshit.

    Are you joking, picking on fat people... fat people make up 36% of the adult population in the USA... not just "fat" which can mean different things to different people, but folks who are clinically defined as "obese". Since you can be fat and not reach the criteria to be labeled obese, the actual percentage of fat people to people in the normal range, is about 50/50. That would mean a slim majority (pardon the pun) would be poking fun at, or I guess according to the article, would be guilty of fatism.

    If the current trend holds up, over 50% of American Adults will be "obese" in the near future.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/18/us-obesity-us-idUSBRE88H0RA20120918
     
  4. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    Re: is Fat-ism the new racism?

    Being fat is a choice. Being a certain race isn't. And even beyond that, it's almost absurd to compare the too. Look at the history of racism... and you're going to tell me that fat people face anywhere near the discrimination that racial minorities have faced?

    Sure, fat people might get made fun of. Other small things like that. But you can't tell me it is a huge issue. And there are plenty of other things on the level of 'fatism.' All kinds of little differences cause people to be discriminated against.
     
  5. Emelie

    Emelie Queen of darkness

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    Re: is Fat-ism the new racism?

    There's definitely a point there, being fat can be a choice, whereas culture and origin is not. However, there are those that really, really struggle with their weight, and it's not really a choice. Sure most people just eat too much and never move, but most people do really fight against it, but just don't.. win.
     
  6. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Re: is Fat-ism the new racism?

    But fat isn't a choice. In fact large amounts of new research suggest that people who are fat generally have a condition (this can be a psychological or chemical and it can even be a combo of the two together - esp if the chemical leads to increase in weight which leads to mental abuse which sparks the psychological).

    There is also the fact that, mentally speaking, most of our bodies WANT to be fat. Or rather they want to consume food as readily as possible. Even though we've scheduled meals per day with a guaranteed food source at those meals, our bodies still have basic survival instinct built in which says "eat food now because it might not be there later". Of course there is a limit to that value (even animals will stock food up - though some can have trouble remembering where they left it).

    There is also a cultural element to things. Western people are currently going mad for slim, and not just slim, impossibly slim. Mots of those women (and men!) in glam magazines are getting nips and tucks all over the place; indeed for some its a matter of course that their photos will be doctored to a significant degree. As a result people are shown almost alien - lacking key parts of their bodies so that they can be super slim super trim and super (plastic) smooth.
    Shift out to places like Africa and there is still a culture that a larger person is more "attractive". PArt of this comes from the fact that in a nation where you've no food shortage the attraction is to mental control whilst in a nation of food lack the attraction is toward one who has a large income (and thus can afford food).

    Note that this latter element still plays true even in western nations since its a more base concept of survival.



    In the end I don't blame the overweight for being overweight; food is bombarded at us in insane levels as is food targeted marketing and food additives to make it even more appealing. Couple that with a society that is fast moving away from prepared meals and toward pre-cooked meals by outside sources and you've fast a society where its very understandable that many will end up with poor eating habbits.

    There is some change taking place, but possibly not enough.


    That said I also blame a part of the western Obesity problem on the post war baby boomers. A not insigificant proportion of the population who are getting old. And as people get old they tend to slow down more and more - thus creating a ripe population for obesity problems.
     
  7. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    Yeah. Someone will always bring up the choice paradigm. Thanks for doing so, Kak :)

    Anyway, I merged Anonymous' thread regarding FATism with a previous thread called Obesity for strong similarities in topic.
     
  8. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Re: is Fat-ism the new racism?

    Good points.
    Comparing what a typical black person usually goes through in their lifetime to being overweight is a bit ridiculous. I've never heard of a person being harassed by the police because they were fat, unless they were a fat black person.
     
  9. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Re: is Fat-ism the new racism?

    But we're all born with biological advantages, and deficits.

    Growing up I was Hyperactive, now commonly known as ADD, I'm still hyper... I've had to deal with it all my life and keep it under control, and turn it into an advantage whenever possible. Just because someone has a precondition to be overweight shouldn't mean they accept their deficit and then just move on.

    And I disagree with Overread... in most cases being fat is a choice.
    Having a psychological/biological disorder shouldn't be the escape clause for someone remaining obese.
     
  10. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Re: is Fat-ism the new racism?

    You're assuming that its a deficit when I thought I'd outlined how its a fairly basic (if sometimes extreme) example of basic survival instinct build into most living creatures. Also you can't deny that trying to avoid ones own temptations is going to be an increasingly difficult factor when those temptations are so easily accessible and so heavily bombarded upon the person. Heck just walk into your next supermarket and look at the wall to wall food - heck most have shelves stacked so high you can't even reach them.

    There is temptation of the carrot on the stick and then there is temptation of the whole carrot farm thrust under your very nose.

    Whilst it is not a "get out of gaol" free card it is an explanation and I think it serves to highlight that society presents people with many clashing and strongly influenced messages. On the one hand its telling people to buy more - eat more and on the other side its saying don't eat because it makes you a freak. The problem is psychological isolation of a person is less likely to make them willing to change and more likely to isolate themselves further.

    It's a messy situation since I doubt many of these inputs will go away any time soon - what I think society needs is a more healthy approach all around and that I feel; is something we are slowly working toward but not well enough. The basics of trying to help in these situations would be vastly increasing the home economics classes in schools - school needs to step in a life courses education (As many of them used to be in the olden days -albeit then focused more toward girls than men at times) otherwise kids learn their bad habits direct from their parents and will only repeat the cycle.
     
  11. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    Re: is Fat-ism the new racism?

    Ok, I am going to guess you are not a dietary specialist here. And, following your remarks, I don't think you have ever been at a BMI 30 kg/m[SUP]2[/SUP]. Sooo...

    What exactly makes you claim that obesity, by and large, is a choice (in your environment of reference)?
     
  12. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    Being fat is a choice 90 percent of the time. My sister has a disease that makes her gain tons of weight. She can't properly process sugar. But guess what? She watches what she eats and works out everyday. And guess what? She's not fat.

    I used to be fat. But guess what? Now I watch what I eat and work out everyday. No more fat. What do you want me to say? that people are born fat? Because I don't believe that, not for a second. I'm sure there are some people, hence the ten percent, that can't help there weight. But hell, most everyone can. So yeah.

    If people feel like they are being discriminated against, because of their weight, lose it! Otherwise, be proud of your body and don't care what people say.

    There's nothing wrong with being fat. But there is something wrong with being obese. At least health wise.

    i don't know but this is just my random thoughts and whatever
     
  13. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: is Fat-ism the new racism?

    I'll answer this from my social group point of view.

    In my re-enactment group, we have lots of obese people. Lots, and they are BIG too. Way beyond just putting on a bit as you age which is normal.
    One guy is about 45 years old, 6 foot 3 and he'd be at a guess 200kg or more. But look at photos of him in mid 20s and he's a normal healthy build. He just let himself go and ate crap. Whenever I go to his place, he's drinking sugary drinks and snacking on muffins and potato chips.

    And woe betide the "all you can eat" buffet that hosts my group! I'll have one plate, maybe a small second plate, and some dessert, and I'm stuffed over full, but it's a rare thing for me to eat like that.
    My friends will be going back for third and fourth servings, and THEN having dessert as well. It's an insane amount of food, but they guzzle it down and go back for more.

    From my circle of friends, from what I've seen over 10 years and looking back at photos then and now, they have been lazy, inactive, and eaten way too much. Whilst they may have bodies that hang on to calories easier than my super skinny body, they don't also need those third and fourth helpings.

    But luckily, a few of them have improved their diets, done exercise and got back to a good healthy weight. Seriously, looking through my photos from 10 years in the group is shocking, and sad.
     
  14. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    In my experience, this is true.

    My best mate who I've known since age 9 was always a pudgy kid. He is one who puts on weight easily, and frighteningly fast. We're 33 now, and at this heaviest in high school he was 140kg. He got a physical labouring job and literally worked off about 40kg through energy output, and fixing up his crappy diet (his parents split and he used food as comfort). Now we're 33, and realistically he's probably always going to bounce between 95 - 110kg (he's 6 foot and strong too) but he doesn't ever want to let himself get obese again.

    So again, in my direct experience, I've seen a pudgy friend become an obese teenager, then lose it as an adult through diet and exercise, and others who were perfectly normal healthy weights pack on the pounds due to eating rubbish food in massive amounts, whilst doing no exercise.
     
  15. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    I am very skinny, I will never be a muscley guy on the cover of a magazine. My best mate is pudgy, but very fit and very strong. Neither of us are pinup models physically, but we are healthy and fit and will hopefully live long active lives and not be a burden on the medical system as the obese often are becoming.


    I'd buy this as a partial excuse for overweight children, but I don't buy this as an excuse for fully grown adults who should have the intelligence and self control to put down that chocolate bar.

    As to fat children, the parents should be doing a better job. Our kids would LOVE to eat chips and chocolate and drink soft drinks all day long. So would I, that stuff tastes GREAT :D But we simply do not buy it, we are honest enough to know that if it's in the pantry, we'll eat it. Om nom nom. But we don't buy it, so if the kids are hungry, they get an apple, or carrot, pear, banana, some dried fruit or nuts, they drink water or milk, and they get one small cup of diluted fruit juice with dinner each night, and dinner is usually plain pasta or rice, with steamed veg and a small portion of meat.


    p.s. I'm exactly the same hahaha. All my school reports say "Intelligent child, but easily distracted. Always looking out the window and daydreaming. Needs to concentrate more" etc etc :D I'm 33 and my brain still flits around from topic to topic. Oh look, something shiny! I'm sure that if I was a kid in modern America, I'd be medicated.
    But I've learnt to accept it, work with it, and it doesn't hold me back (as long as I make notes so I don't forget what I was going to SQUIRREL!!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2012
  16. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    This article in today's news is interesting:

    I worked with a lady whose husband was a former policeman, he resigned after being severely bashed and since then had struggled massively with his weight. He ended up getting lap band surgery and he's literally half the man he used to be, and he feels great now. He had tried all sorts of things but his old injuries prevented him from being too physically active, so surgery worked for him.
     
  17. Dreamscaper

    Dreamscaper Royal Hamster Wrangler

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    All I read was "Give me your money!" If you don't develop the discipline to eat right and exercise the surgery will be reversed in about 5 years or so and then the surgeons will want to do it again and get even more of your cash.
     
  18. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    I am uber skinny Mud..and yes I have very muscular friends..but its more about genetics, because one of the does nothing as is strong and big as a bull...while other trains hard goes to guy eat protein shakes and so on..and is bit bigger than me..lol.


    But, yes I think that people are now over-obsest with beeing muscular - I just try to live happly - I do what makes me happy, want to eat tons of junk food - I do so.
     
  19. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Re: is Fat-ism the new racism?



    Because the obese people I see usually have horrible eating habits.

    Some fat person who had three slices of pizza, or a whopper with cheese and onion rings for lunch today and washed it down with a soft drink, and had a donut for dessert; has already ingested more calories than I have in an entire day of three square meals and snacks. What did I have for lunch today... two large vegetable eggrolls and two slices of lean turkey, coming in at 260 calories, followed by three chocolate chip cookies that have vitamins baked into them. I never drink soda pop or snack on potato chips, I nibble on cheerios and I drink water with some fruit/vegetable juice mixed in for taste.

    At the beginning of the year I weighed 200lbs, after finally keeping to a New Year's Resolution and changing my eating habits I now weigh 180lbs. The love handles are gone, my knees no longer make that snap-crackle-pop noise when running up stairs, and there's the same bounce to my step that I had when I was younger.

    I had always been thin or average but as I got older I fell into some bad eating habits... just like happens to most people I guess. I tell ya what though, going to a mostly vegetarian diet has made a remarkable difference in my life. I would recommend it to anyone who struggles with their weight.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
  20. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I too have developed many workarounds to my ADD... like you, my mind tends to hopscotch like mad and I combat it by compartmentalizing my life and giving myself time constraints for getting things done. I'm also ridiculously well organized now, which was something I started to do after reading an article by a psychologist whose main goal was to get ADD suffers off of medication and on to a more disciplined lifestyle. You can actually make ADD work for you when you understand what it is.


    I think the science bears it out that fat people are using food as a drug for a whole multitude of mental disorders. The real problem isn't the eating and the obesity, those are just the outward symptoms of much deeper issues the person needs to attend to.

    I know it sounds harsh, but a fat person whose uncomfortable with their weight doesn't need to visit the gym or a nutritionist, they ought to see a shrink and take care of the problem at the source.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012