Obama - Health Reform & everything else

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Justice, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. Fiel

    Fiel Guardian of Time

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    OMG look at all that taxes...! :eek: So the book mentioning tax in America was true after all. I read books by Robert Kiyosaki and some others. Said that tax in America is one third of the income, and all other small taxes would actually cut your pay in half. It sounds rather fictional, or fantasy to me... *Hey, where am I again?*

    One could wonder where all the tax goes to (into?). The government really should come clean on this.
    But I wonder if they would just say it's too much of paperwork.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2009
  2. Soylent Green

    Soylent Green Threadkiller

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    I just wanted to point out that Americans are not in a unique position regarding tax rates and other excises and levies. In Australia, we are taxed at a very similar rate, we have a goods and services tax and much government protectionism which restricts competition and drives up the cost of goods.

    On the other hand, I believe our health and welfare systems are very generous and accessible by US standards.
     
  3. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    Interesting article which illustrates the downward spiral of the US economy relative to the new kid on the block, China. Whilst not specific to Obama the current budget deficit is just exacerbating the problem:

    http://www.safehaven.com/article-15003.htm










    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2009
  4. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    When the Communists are out capitalizing the Capitalists, you know we have absolute d*ckheads as heads of state. Bush, Obama, same boat as far as spending, though Obama is a disaster wrapped in a catastrophe.
     
  5. Loxley

    Loxley Pervert adventurer

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    *Cough*New World Order*Cough*

    Yup. Methinks Obama's two things; A Bilderberg/New World Order puppet, and David Rockefeller's bitch. :D
     
  6. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    Although I discount 99% of conspiracy theories, I do believe eventually there will be a new world order and an all encompassing world government. Many European nations are almost begging for it. It's not so much a behind the scenes effort by Illuminati or some other Echelon Order of Jewish Bankers or something, but merely people in power playing very much to what the people want. In the US, people are willing to turn over freedom for health care. Private success for government security in the form of bailouts. And we owe more money to the Chinese than we could ever pay back even with a 50% reduction in government spending, which, as we all know, Obama basically decides to triple.

    Buying a heap of gold and having it tied to a bag around my neck is starting to sound like a good idea (ala Comedy Central's South Park).

    In the end, do I want to be safe and protected? yes, maybe I would. I do not like the idea that in order to be safe and protected, you have to ascribe to all the thoughts and beliefs of those that want to rule over you. When Obama calls health care a basic human right, I say, "Who says? You?" Who established that as a right? I don't see myself as having any more right than anyone OTHER than to have the right to a basic level of freedom. More and more government is giving us less and less of that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2009
  7. Loxley

    Loxley Pervert adventurer

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    Yeah, I'd buy gold too if I could afford it. But, meh, I care not as long as none of these New World Order proclaimers (and they HAVE said it themselves - Kissinger, Bush, Blair, Brown, Clinton, even Rockefeller and Obama, have all said they want a new world order. I could dig up a YouTube clip for every one of them where they say it on TV) start trying to mess around with and tell me how to live my life...

    ...oh, wait...

    ;)


    All conspiracy theories and jokes aside, though. Obama took a heavy burden when becoming president. He's got a personality cult around him the size of (insert random dictator here). So he's got a lot of hopes to live up to from these people. All this talk about change - sooner or later he's going to have to either follow through on the promise for change, or he'll get in trouble.

    Of course, my conspiracy theory side says that's what's meant to happen to help further the NWO-agenda, but, meh, who can say with a 100 percent certainty what will happen?
     
  8. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    Obama called himself a "World Citizen" on many occasions. Even at the Brandenburg Gate speech he did. I doubt Obama is working towards making the US insolvent, but I am certain he is open to the suggestions of those who would like such an end. Right now the rest of the world is tickled pink, they HATED Bush because he was so cowboyish, did what he thought was right, rest of the world be damned. I wish more nations took this attitude, at least we'd be clear on where we stand. Now they have Obama, who has gone around endlessly apologizing for America and seems to be willing to do things even against the interests of America just to appease other nations.

    Damn, gold prices shot up again. Maybe I should buy silver, it's cheaper, easier to spend in case of dystiopan world collapse...
     
  9. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    Silver is a pretty worthless commodity ~ gold, gold-mining stocks & platinum :D

    Also oilers as world is running out faster than what we're being told..
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/09/peak-oil-international-energy-agency
    http://seekingalpha.com/article/173...th-oil-market-data?source=article_lb_articles

    (Obviously dyor on any investments)
     
  10. Loxley

    Loxley Pervert adventurer

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    Copper's neat too, or so I hear. And jewels, lots of beautiful jewels. ;)

    But, nah... You know what is really valuable in case of a dystopian world collapse?
    Survival knife, a decent gun or two, freeze dried and dehydrated food, and other tools of necessity. :D
     
  11. Naya

    Naya the fallen

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    I believe Obama has brought America back to the world stage, because no matter how much we say we don't need China or anyone else's help we do. He is what America is all about. We can't expect Obama to wave a wand and make it all better, but damn the man is trying his hardest and seems to care about "people", rather than billionaires. We're the one's spending our little paychecks. We've been here before and we will get through it. Not all of it is in his hands.

    I remember someone asking me, "Why with a country so diverse in people and pride's itself on this very thing, why are the leader's always the same race? Why can you not get away from the old world?" I didn't really know what to say.:cool:

    I was for McCain at first, but after watching the debates, it turned out he was an old fart who couldn't talk about anything, but Vietnam. I wasn't even alive then and we shouldn't have been there either.:nono:
     
  12. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    Re: Obama - The other side


    I see a huge flaw in logic that we HAVE to have a diverse leadership. For me, only the best person for the job should lead our nation, black, white, or anything. Creating a false diversity is a terrible thing to do, such as affirmative action, giving minorities a free pass and extra points simply because they have a different skin color.

    Obama was not and is not qualified. McCain I felt was, but Sarah Palin was not. McCain did not talk just about Vietnam, he also had a health care plan in which Americans could deduct as much as $5000 from their taxes to help pay for it. Obama is trying to implement a system where I am FORCED to buy health care, and if I don't I could be sent to jail for 5 years. This is an except from the House bill.

    This doesn't feel like he's looking out for the little guy to me.

    And about China, we SHOULDN'T need anyone else's help, but we do, which is sad. Obama is going to increase the federal deficit to a point where it's going to be generations before we can pay it back. This will effect me in my later years, and my children as well.

    I just don't see a bright and prosperous America just because a black guy is President. That might say good things about America as an institution, but I don't see good things coming because our Commander in Chief has darker skin than the last one. It's his ideas I see as a problem.
     
  13. Blackness

    Blackness Well-Known Member

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    I must admit my error, Justice. (for once :p)
    Obama is a fail. But Mccain would've been one too.
    The US is in a bad state, just like the rest of the world.
     
  14. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    I got a question about american healthcare.

    Let's assume you have no health care and get sick. A cold or something. No need to go see a doctor. It get's worse and worse etc you guess that it's not a cold but something serious:
    - if you went to a doctor, would he treat you?
    - would you have to pay for it by yourself?
    - if it would turn out to be something really bad and really expensive to treat (cancer e.g), would a hospital treat you if you had no health insurance?
    - and if not, would they check if you were able to pay the bill in the end before they'd start the treatment or
    - would they send you home to die?

    Maybe someone can explain a little about the current healthcare system to me, non-american, living in a country where healthcare is a MUST as well
     
  15. Zymbaline

    Zymbaline Your Muse

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    The only reason Obama was "sanctified" was that he was the first black president of USA.
    If he would be white, he wouldn't be seen as a hero, legend, whatever.

    And this image that media created of him has fooled people so much, they actually believe he's some sort of saint.

    I think it's ridiculous, I think the American politic is ridiculous.
     
  16. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    On 3-10-2009 I wrote...

    "People on this board lauded Obama for signing legislation to close Gitmo, but they didn't even read what the legislation actually said. Literally it is a moratorium on deciding within a year on what the best action to take will be. Hell, what if they decide the best action ISN'T to close Gitmo?"

    Well, Gitmo is still open. You would think something so important as to close down a torture camp where innocent Muslims are forced to bath in menstrual blood would have gotten more attention than it has.

    Or maybe Obama and his cronies stopped acting like children, looked at Gitmo and decided that was actually the best place to keep terrorists.
     
  17. Fabled_Tales

    Fabled_Tales Middle Earth Ewok

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    Obama is doing the best he can with a goverment not willing to work together. Lets face it, the democrats don't want to play with the republicans and vice versa. When the kids will not just get along what is he supposed to do? Hes a president not a tyrant, he can't just bop them all on the head. I love the b-slapping hes been giving John Mccain though, thats funny.
     
  18. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    You mean during that "bi-partisan" meeting in which it became apparent Obama wasn't willing to listen to any Republican suggestions and he rudely cut off John McCain several times while he was making a statement? That wasn't a bitch slapping, Obama sounded like a buffoon and a bully and he did NO favors to his legislation doing that. He even cried like a baby at the end if that meeting and said "We're not doing this again". He's not a popular president anymore. The healthcare bill has only about 26% support now, and they're pulling more bribes and blackmailing to get it passed.

    Obama has shown one thing. He's useless as a politcian. He has huge majorities in the House and the Senate, a HUGE popularity rating, and he screwed it all up in record time. He's not my boss, he works for us, but Obama and politicians at large seem to have forgotten that.
     
  19. curunir's bane

    curunir's bane Kwisatch Haderach

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    Re: Obama - The other side


    Now we are completely 100% positive they are all terrorists right? I mean we have sufficient evidence that proves their guilt beyond all doubt, right?
     
  20. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    For the most part, yes. Thing is, if you're caught in a house with a bunch of people with guns, rockets, bomb making parts, and people with their faces covered trying to make inspirational Jihad videos... maybe you shouldn't be there, even if you aren't participating. Getting captured would be my least concern, a guided rocket from an aerial drone would be.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jan/07/nation/la-na-guantanamo-repeaters7-2010jan07

    Bush let 500 detainees go after reviewing their cases and circumstances. Those left have been kept because they have MORE than adequate reasons to detain them.

    When the Bush administration said 61 detainees released actually RETURNED to the battlefield, it was met with scrutiny left and right from blogs and other left leaning media who claimed the Pentagon was lying.

    The Obama administration updated the number to 74 this year, and not a peep. All the stories of scrutiny I could find were of the Bush numbers.

    There's just no consistency anymore.