Obama - Health Reform & everything else

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Justice, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    Hyperbole aside, Obama's decisions have not inspired confidence in the US. The problem I fear is a President who throws 4 trillion dollars of debt at a problem only to retard economic growth, not expand it. The problems that arose during the Bush administration, especially the mortgage crisis, did not come about thanks to Bush listening to the wrong people, unless you count people like Chris Dodd and Barney Frank, both Democratic leaders who headed committees on Housing, and got legislation passed that allowed companies to give mortgages to high risk borrowers.

    Bush's "Reign of Terror" is over though. Obama was elected because he promised the world, powered by green energy and free of global warming. And if he doesn't live up to his hype, which was impossibly high to begin with, he's in trouble. If by June things aren't turning around, people will start getting very upset.
     
  2. Senekha

    Senekha <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    Suddenly, I'm not so thrilled about moving to the States in a couple years (which is the plan my boyfriend and I have for once I'm out of uni) :(
     
  3. kartaron

    kartaron Hunter / Gatherer

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    Say what you will, but Bush effectively did nothing for 8 years except prosecute a war against a nation that harbors terrorists and a nation that was violating a negotiated cease fire. He implemented no major domestic policies and after 2004 had no political clout. His most criticized policies, namely Gitmo, is by even Obama administration officials admissions, either overblown or the exact policy the country has had since WWII.

    In politics I always prefer a man who doesnt know, to not do.
     
  4. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    Timeo Danaus et dona ferentes
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2009
  5. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    He looks good in that. Yamakas are mind control devices as we all know.

    besides, the Israeli's are TERRIFIED of Obama. They know he has openly said he seeks more peaceful, open relations with countries like Russia (who supplies Iran and other terrorist nations with munitions, and randomly invades countries like Georgia to gain influence over their Russian population) and wants to create open and "understanding" dialogue with countries like Syria and Iran (who absolutely love the time they will be buying by pretending to want to work with Obama while doing the exact opposite).

    And considering Obama's Take No Side approach during the Russian invasion of Georgia, the Israeli's know they can't count on him if their security is threatened from an outside regime.

    Oh, in lighter news (if you can call it light), Obama manages to be severely inconsiderate to Prime Minister Gordon Brown.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/09/brushing-off-mr-brown/

    Brown brought Obama several items of historical significance to honor Barack Obama and his historical Presidency (i'm really getting tired of that term). Obama on the other hand gives him a DVD giftset, and regifts a bust of Winston Churchill given to President Bush after 9/11.

    So... if he REALLY messes up relations with a stalwart ally like the UK, I wonder how he would do with, oh, Mahmoud Ahmedinejad?
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2009
  6. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    Re: Obama - The other side


    Research a state that has a good, solid conservative governor, that has passed budgets on time, and is not spending the state into billions of dollars of debt because they spend $1.25 for ever dollar they take in. In other words, not California.
     
  7. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Re: Obama - The other side


    Oh sorry I forgot that USA is ok to invade Bosnia,Kosovo,Afghanistan,Iraq and bully Iran and North Korea,but Russia is evil when they invade Georgia defending a separatist
    pro-Russian population which was being slaughtered by the Georgian Army.

    I also guess that for you Israel invading Lebanon in 2006 for the sake of two soldiers is ok and Russia invading Georgia for the death of 7 Russian peacekeepers and a number of South Ossetian civilians is just plain evil.

    From what I see in the picture Obama,just like Bush pays a tribute to Israel by doing that and I don't see Israel actually doing something to show "obedience" towards USA.
    And let's face it,if someone is not ok for the zionist lobby,he can't become President of the country.
     
  8. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    Even the Russians admit the number of people killed in Ossetia were greatly exaggerated. It was presented as a genocide when in fact it had the numbers of a minor upset, or a large riot.

    http://www.civil.ge/eng/article.php?id=20180

    Even Human's Right Watch, an extremely liberal organization, placed the total dead on both sides at around 300 - 400. This was not a genocide, and it did not at all validate or justify a full scale invasion. Russia did not even seek a single moment of diplomacy, it full scale invaded.

    And I guess the US were the bad guys for STOPPING genocide in Bosnia and Kosovo, were the bad guys for deposing the Taliban which were Al Qaeda militants who actually planned 9/11, Iraq I won't even bother because you called it destroyed a while ago, despite there being less violence there than in Afghanistan, and, oh, guess what, the UNTIED NATIONS, not just the United States have been cracking down on North Korea and Iran for their nuclear weapons programs. I guess the whole world is just one big bully huh?

    The lead up to the Israel-Lebanon War wasn't just two soldiers being killed. The number of Israeli's killed and terrorized by terrorist groups like Hezbollah have been a decades long conflict. The recent crackdown in Gaza was due to years of Qassam rocket attacks, 6,000 total fired at Israeli cities, but I guess that doesn't qualify as an act of war.

    Jimmy carter has been the most anti-Israel president we have ever had, and yet somehow he was elected without the Jewish overlord approval.

    If I said half the things about Arabs that you have about Jews (note, ARABS, not terrorist islamic militants, but Arabs as a whole) I would have been called a racist a while ago. You have tried yourself, but blatant anti-Semitism isn't an enlightened position due to years of hard research, it's hating a culture due to their race.
     
  9. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    There's one difference Justice,Jews especially in America,control everything.The media is theirs,the biggest political lobbies are theirs,Hollywood is actually full of Jewish actors,directors and writers not to mention producers and jewish buisenessmen form a big part of the financial life of the country.

    I don't think Arabs have such power.Arabs have oil which makes them impressively rich and powerful ONLY in cooperation with the West.For example Saudi Arabia,Kuwait,Bahrain etc.
    who have pledged their allegiance to the United States and enjoy the benefits.

    I really enjoy how passionately you talk about preventing "genocides" in Bosnia and Kosovo talking about the g.i.joe as the defender of peace and justice and at the same time condemn russia for her operations.

    Which genocide did they prevent in Kosovo?Albanian?What's Kosovo's status after the NATO meddling?Oh yes,genocide and provocative actions from behalf of the Albanians towards the Serbs and Rom of the area.

    So I guess they failed to prevent a genocide.Unless you wanna say this was their plan from the beginning,to eliminate and extinct the Serbian population of Kosovo i Metohija.



    What's your opinion on the Chechen wars?Was it justified or was it an "invasion" of Russia in Chechnya?
     
  10. jake1964

    jake1964 Old enough to be your dad

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    I'm certain I remember reading this very thing before. I'm pretty sure these were the views of a person of some historical significance. I'm just trying to remember who........:duh:
     
  11. Jorick

    Jorick Well-Known Member

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    Just a couple points about the economy...

    First, it's a very basic principle of economics that you can't fix a recession without spending money. The problem is a lack of money in the market, therefore putting more into it will help if done properly. This has to include loans actually being given, however, and that's yet to happen. Once it does, however, things are moving in the right direction.

    Second, it's another very fundamental problem when a single company is so large that its failure could decimate the GLOBAL market. That's just a disaster waiting to happen. These companies should be broken up into smaller businesses so as to give no single company the power to hold the life of the global economy in its hands. Until that happens, well. we're kind of at the mercy of the people running them.

    But aside from the economy, I think Obama is a huge improvement over Bush (whom he's about equal with in economy imo). And John "I don't know much about the economy" McCain would only have been worse.
     
  12. kartaron

    kartaron Hunter / Gatherer

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    Bosnia, Kosovo and Afghanistan were UN or coalition events. The US takes the lead because we are the superpower. Iran and NK are UN or multi nation negotiations.

    Russia antagonized Ossetia for the last decade just like they are doing now with Ukraine. They created the situation because they want the control of the region that they enjoyed under the USSR.
     
  13. kartaron

    kartaron Hunter / Gatherer

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    I would say it isnt spending money, but investing in profitable ventures. Not that most recessions need a focus on relief or spending, as most recessions are over by the time we have solid numbers on what is going on. But spending alone isnt the answer. Dumping 100 billion into McDonalds burgers isnt going to end a recession. Freeing up cash for 100 - 200 thousand small businesses is what grows an economy so that they can produce wanted and needed merchandise and services.

    As to one business failure that can devastate an economy, its a false concept. Whatever there is of value will be sold off, whatever doesnt have value, never really did (speculation) and the economy will deflate that bubble. Government throwing more money at bad debt to keep the bubble inflated makes the issue worse, not better.
     
  14. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Re: Obama - The other side


    And the Atheneans were using an alliance as an excuse for their imperialist and expansive agenda,I don't see big difference between ancient Athens of the Delphic Alliance and USA of the NATO/UN.
     
  15. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    And I heard somewhere that Obama actually made an appearance for Jay Leno's show. Man the reps are gonna have a hey day doing some random bashing. :S
     
  16. kartaron

    kartaron Hunter / Gatherer

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    Well, for one the fact that we arent expansionist or imperialist in any reasonable definitions of the words.
     
  17. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    Re: Obama - The other side


    Seems to me when Obama said, "PRES. OBAMA: If we are keeping focused on all the fundamentally sound aspects of our economy..." he was admitting the economy HAS sound aspects. Yet when John McCain called the fundamentals of our economy sound, the same words, just a different order, Obama lambasted him. Of course, during the time McCain said it, so now when Obama has said it... well, the economy is a hell of a lot less sound...

    [​IMG]

    And since the stimulus money has hardly even begun to trickle, and a large percentage is only going to lawmakers pet projects (huge portions of the stimulus package won't hit until later this year and into next, which means it's not doing us any good now) many people including myself think this is just the Democrats patting themselves on the back since they finally have total control of the government, and it's time to pass out cigars.

    Obama promised to be a fiscally sound and responsible President, but during his press conference yesterday, when asked about the 7 to 9.3 trillion dollars in debt he is going to rack up due to his spending budget, he keeps deferring to the Bush administration, as if HIS out of control spending is Bush's fault. Seems to me that when it's your turn to turn the lights off when you leave, and instead you turn several more lights in the house on, it doesn't make much sense to point out the person before you left some on himself.
     
  18. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    Re: Obama - The other side


    In the above video, Obama vows to cut 100 million dollars from the spending budget.

    $100 million. Less than .003 percent of the budget. That's 30 cents out of every 100 dollars spent.

    This video below is very well done in the facy it shows the scale of how muc wasteful spending Obama has introduced to the country. Despite calling George W Bush the most fiscally irresponsible president ever, Obama is spending us more than 1 trillion dollars into debt every year for four years.

    This is money we are never going to see again. Government could never match that revenue source unless taxes are increased on every household, and on wealthy people more than double fold.

    His slogan shouldn't have been Change, it should have been Dollars.


    And yet, in 4 years, he will likely win re-election even if the country owes more money to China and other countries than we will ever be able to repay. Bush raked up I think around 3 trillion dollars in debt over a period of 8 years, and he had two wars and 9/11 to deal with. Overall, Obama will beat what Bush did in about 3 years, maybe less, brags about saving .003% of the budget, and if he's ever re-elected, will certainly do a lot more spending into oblivion.

    Yeah, future not looking too bright in my opinion.
     
  19. Justice

    Justice New Member

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    Re: Obama - The other side


    I just wanted to point out that I made this quote many MANY months ago. I gave Obama until June to turn things around, or else the haze that covered the eyes of those astounded by the President would start to clear up.

    His poll numbers have taken a HUGE tank in July and August, and are still falling to this day. Nearly 25% of the African American population disapproves of the job he's doing (and after getting over 95% of their vote, that's saying something).

    He's making a big push in Healthcare reform, and it's dropped his poll numbers to around 45%. His disapproval rating is around 53%. If he were elcted now instead of last year, he would be in troube. Of course that would have to mean his candidate would have been popular enough to grab ever other single vote (and yes, Sarah Palin probably hurt John McCain in the end who i still feel would have been a much stronger President), but who would have ever guessed that in less than a year Obama would be more unpopular than he is popular?
     
  20. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Obama - The other side

    What exactly is Obaa's plan for healthcare reform? He's changing from what to what?

    I did see an economic projection that if healthcare refunds/rebates don't change, that in another 20 years, with the ageing population, medicare/medicaid (?) would consume such an enormous percentage of the budget there'd effectively be nothing left.

    True or BS?