Nazi-Germany/ Hitler

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Running Wolf, Jan 15, 2009.

  1. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    What do you need an army for if you don't go to war?
    Sure, out of necessity to defend yourself, but then again: An army provokes attack, especially if you have one when you're not allowed to have one.
    You can't just build out an army without using it. And army costs money and doesn't bring any profit at the same time. Industry is way better.
    (Look at the US, a great army, several wars at hand but no money. Congrats.)


    I doubt that the jews have any agenda like that. And I doubt that they brain-wash.
    And I really disagree that we have to do something about "it". "They" can stay in their positions and handle the money all they want, I don't care as long as they're good at it.
    What bothers me a bit is the influence the jewish community has on the US politics.
    I mean I get why the germans can't say anything against Israel (I don't get it, but never mind that)
    But the US really should say stuff and they don't... That's the only thing that bothers me. But again, we caused this ourselves so we really shouldn't complain.
     
  2. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    See?That's what we're talking about.Influence on not just the U.S. but many countries of the world.Even in my country many of the politicians either descent from jews or have married jewish women.Meaning there's a strong influence from the Jewish lobby,which isn't really working towards the good of my country or your country or someone else's country.I'm not talking about simple every day jews,I'm talking about big capital Zionists who are into politics,money and lobbies.

    On the army thing,well Germany had no army back then,it was devastated and making the army strong again gave the Germans some of their confidence back.What do you need an army if you're not going to war?Well ask your country,you guys have a big and powerful army,one of the strongest in Europe.Not to mention you make some of the best small arms weapons and some of the top-best tanks in the world(which we in turn buy and Turkey as well follows to buy even more so we can kill each other with American and German weapons).
     
  3. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    Capitalistic Zionists who are into politics, money and lobbies, are just as capitalistic Atheists who are into politics, money and lobbies or as bad as capitalistic christians who are into politics, moey and lobbies.
    It's not the fact that they are jews that makes me not like those people up there, but the fact that they're major capitalists.


    And that's nothing I'm proud of.
    What I'm proud of is a little sentence that's written in some kind of law since 1945: "The germans are not allowed to lead a war anymore"
    Not that a new Hitler would mind that sentence, but I like it anyways.

    I hate that we make and export those weapons. Hate it hate it hate.
    First thing we say: "Hey, we're for human rights, against dictators and all for democracy"
    Second thing we do: Export our tanks and weapons to dictatorial regimes.
    Yay -.-
     
  4. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Yes but they're very good tanks,top quality! :D
     
  5. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    ugh... -.-
    :p
     
  6. Greybeard

    Greybeard Geezer

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    You also export them to us. Canada has been using Leopards for quite a while now. And we haven't been a dictatorship except while Jean Cretien was in power.
     
  7. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    We export them everywhere. and everywhere is bad.
     
  8. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Yup,Canada has Leopard tanks,and here in Greece we have about 501 Leopard 1A5 tanks,183 or 189 Leopard 2A4 tanks and the ultimate kick-ass panzer
    Leopard 2A6 HEL.And Turkey has more than 200 Leopard 2A4 tanks,some hundreds of Leopard 1 models and...well there we are.Greece and Turkey in power balance with American and German weapons.

    Hands down,the Germans sure know how to make good tanks and small weapons.But Russians and Americans and Belgians make weapons for export too.And even the British and the French do that so...no big deal.Germany right now has a few thousands of Leopard 2A6 and Leopard 2A5 tanks and a pretty good army in terms of size,training and equipment.Merkel's not preparing for a Fourth Reich is she?
     
  9. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't put much stock in tanks. Great if a government wants to control it's own population or invade a neighboring nation, but no match for a modern air force. We dispatched Iraqi tanks during Desert Storm by the dozens, and that was over twenty years ago. Tanks can be wiped off the battlefield from a thousand miles away by some pencil-dick on a computer flying an unmanned drone.
     
  10. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Oh here we go again with Operation Desert Storm and how "tanks are obsolete from the modern battlefield".You really want to discuss that?

    Tanks are not obsolete or near worthless in the modern battlefield.They are still a significant part of an army.In Operation Desert Storm and of course much later in 2003 the Iraqi tanks were inferior to the Western ones,mostly because even the T-72 models the Iraqi Army had were the so-called "monkey models" the inferior Soviet export models of the past.They were downgraded from the normal T-72s,they had inferior ammunition and their crews were lacking the right training.Saddam always bragged about his great army but that was an army which was at its biggest part made out of men with little training and old ammunitions and weapons.
    And let's not forget that generally in all wars and battles you can't just send tanks out in the open plains without proper air-support or AA shield.Apart from that,tanks are still a vital part of an army,upgraded all the time and still mass produced and with newer models designed.A pencil-dick can watch his unmanned drone fall down by AA fire while tanks advance in safety.
     
  11. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    I'm going to get out of this discussion, about... right now...

    but just to reassure everyone: Merkel's not planning any Reich at all. In fact we're downsizing the army as we speak, the draft was stopped last year and now the government hopes that young people join the army because they actually want to. Har... let's see how that works out...
     
  12. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Making a professional army instead of drafting people is good.
     
  13. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    You know next to nothing about military operations.
    Tanks are valuable only so much as you rule the skies and have the wherewithal to ship/airlift them to the proximity of the battle theatre. The best tanks made are no match for a relatively cheap drone or an Apache helicopter, both of which can destroy multiple tanks without exposing themselves to much risk. Unmanned drones are the future of conventional, and unconventional warfare. We use them almost daily in Afghanistan to great effect. Unforntunately in Afghanistan we've fought the war by half and we're going to find out that there's no winning it.
     
  14. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    No sane person believes Germany is a threat to democracy.

    Some of us in the USA wish both Germany and Japan would loosen up a bit, put the horrible past behind them, and help us out more with the heavy lifting. And it would be nice if some folks recalled that it was because of American economic/military might that Germany was reunited and reconciled back into world.
     
  15. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    Don't mind Merkel. Fear Ratzinger :jawa:
     
  16. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    I do >.>
     
  17. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    The problem is that you think you know everything.And you didn't pay attention to what I said on my post.
    Dominating the skies is nothing if someone can dominate your fighter jets and/or bombers with AA weapons.That allows tanks to do their job much easier in the open and there are places where it's hard for bombers or attack helicopters to get involved and destroy tanks.We too have Longbow Apache in our army and we know their potential.
    You should also know that helicopters can just easily fall from the sky like flies which brings us to the conclusion that battle tanks are far from obsolete in the modern battlefield and the idea of they are useless is irrational.
     
  18. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    The Apache Helicopter is nicknamed "The Tank Killer"... there are no tanks in the world, including our own, that can stand up to them. The newest edition Apache is ridiculously accurate from ridiculously long distances. AA weapons and command & control are the first things to go when America invades a country. It doesn't matter how many and of what quality, they are destroyed posthaste in the first weeks of an engagement. Again, an AA installation, even a mobile one, can be knocked out from a thousand miles way. We rule the skies and an enemy's tank force is merely turned into scrap metal. We will never again see a large scale battle between opposing tank forces. Those days are gone forever.
     
  19. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    1.Like I said we too have Longbow Apache attack helicopters and yes they are pretty effective.
    2.Bragging about the American air supremacy like you did "we rule the skies..." sounds pretty American-proud stupid to me.You don't take into consideration that several countries with Russia as a leading force,have developed certain AA systems that can counter American "air supremacy".S-300,S-400 systems as AA weapons of top quality.What about the Indo-Russian super-sonic ballistic missile Brahmos?That could easily smash an American or other installation just as easily as you brag about your army's capabilities.Want more mid-range or small-range AA systems too?How about the Tor-M1?Tried the Pantsyr S1 yet?Why did USA make a big fuss when Iran was to get S-300 systems?
    3.You know...after WWII the biggest tank battle was during the 1973 Yom Kippur War.Then again the world probably thought "yeah well tanks will have a limited role in the army".Then came Desert Storm and in 2008 came the South Ossetian war where Russian tanks made quick work of the Georgian tanks and armored vehicles.
    I'm not saying that these two last wars that I mentioned had an epic proportions tank battle involved,but they prove that tanks are still a vital part of an attacking and/or defending force.And unless we see a big war again,you can't say that "those days are gone forever".
    Want a cup of tea with that arrogance/ignorance of yours?
     
  20. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    You know, I think you're wrong. I believe that within 10 years, unmanned warfare will be outlawed by an international agreement similar to the Geneva convention (though the old convention might be ratified for this purpose) or the proliferation treaty. I am even edging towards accepting WWIII being more likely than not, if a treaty can't be reached.

    Inevertably, I think the discussion about tanks is moot. I still think that the tank is an integral part of an army, modern or no. Yes, tanks have lost their invunerability status with the rise of helicopter gunships and, increasingly, unmanned air vehicles. To the man on the ground, which includes most, a tank is still sovereignty in a can. Since the contries being able to claim instant air supremacy over any battle field are very limited, I'd say the tank still hasn't passed its due date. The only thing that thoroughly beats tanks is the old I am pointing my nukes at you - a trick that renders all helicopter gunships pretty useless as well...