My new longbow

Discussion in 'General Weapons & Armour' started by Mububban, Feb 20, 2006.

  1. AmrasTheArcher

    AmrasTheArcher Woodsman and archer

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    Hey Elladan, where ya from, I'm moving!!! I get to shoot a full day about once a month, not nearly enough, I can't understand the attraction to the compound bows.
     
  2. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    The attraction is hitting the bullseye time after time. Stabilisers, scopes, release aids etc will definitely help you hit the yellow, but to me, if oyu want to do that time aftertime, buy a rifle!

    Elladan, lucky you live in another country or I'd be robbing your house hehehehe. Lovely collection mate. Is the very bottom bow one of those unevenly limbed Japanese bows?
     
  3. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    @Amras ~ just across the Channel (South East England). I'm quite lucky with clubs ~ there's 3 field and 4 target archery clubs within a 20min drive. For competitive shoots that rises to nearer 40 within an hours drive.

    @Mub ~ thanks & hands off my bows! Yes the bottom one is a Japanese yumi (daikyu). I won't have the one pictured for much longer as I've got a nicer bamboo one on order from Japan. We've also 2 Kyudo clubs close(ish).

    Compound bows ~ I've got two of those too. I suppose the pressure shooting these is that you are expected to group your arrows in the pro-ring even at 90metres. Because they are so fast that isn't quite as easy as you'd think even with sights. Shooting them off the finger with no sights is.. interesting :) Rarely shoot them now, look lethal though!

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    So what do the Japanese bows feel like to shoot? What poundage, draw length and range etc do they have?

    Eeww training wheels.... :D
     
  5. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    In a word... weird

    Everything's totally different... the way you draw the bow, shooting off the thumb (special glove has to be made), arrow resting on your bow hand thumb, that your draw ends up behind your ear, pretty much parallel to your shoulder, length of arrow ~ a good 10" longer than normal in my case.

    My bow is 21kg ~ 40lb. It shoots similar to a longbow although the arrow is higher so you're literally looking down the arrow. Not really tried distance shooting as I've only used it in a dojo but my guess is that they are slower for same weight and with the longer, heavier arrows would probably go less distance. Kyudo itself is a little slow for my taste as it's very ceremonial.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2009
  6. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    *Ignore ~ double posted*
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2009
  7. AmrasTheArcher

    AmrasTheArcher Woodsman and archer

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    I'm in the UK too, Eastbourne. You're right they do look lethal, not just to shoot, I wouldn't like to be hit with one either. I don't think I could connect with one though and I love the history of the longbow or warbow as it should properly be called! Go the underdog!!!
     
  8. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    I thought you were in France :)

    There's a couple of field clubs relatively nearby for you then ~ Holmbush & Senlac(?) ~ I've been to the former not the latter. Eastbourne also has it's own target archery club too I think?

    I'm in Chipstead which is about 6m south of Croydon so not a million miles away.

    If you ever get a chance / have transport go to one of these shoots ~ http://www.longbow-archers.com/fraternity.htm
     
  9. Christophe of Grey

    Christophe of Grey Cordwainer to Royals

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    I used to think crossbowmen were slow. Then I went to a 3D shoot with mostly compound shooters. This is how it went for most of them. Look through the range finder binoculars. Pick up bow, stare at target, nock arrow, stare at target, clip on release mechanism, stare at target. Un-nock arrow, unclip release mechanism, un-nock arrow, pick up binoculars to check range. This process was repeated two three and sometimes four times before the ONE arrow was loosed. Did they hit the target, yes. But my experience with game is that it will seldom stand in one place that long! Nor does game stand exactly where it is supposed to, at the 10, 20, 25 yard mark. If only we could traing them. Somewhere I heard the saying "technology makes up for lack of skill and skill makes up for lack of technology."

    Elladen, I have a question about shooting technique with a Japanese bow. This also seems to apply to horse bows if shot as they were in period. Your description implies that you are nocking the arrow on the opposite side of the bow from "typical", i.e. you rest the arrow on your thumb and that you draw to your rear shoulder and sight down the arrow. What keeps your head out of the path of the bow string upon release? It seems to me, having watched lots of pictures and movies of folks shooting this style that the ear on the side of your head nearest the string would get ripped off after a short while!
     
  10. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    I wondered that too when I first saw it. The key I think is in the end position of your drawing hand. With most bow types your hand position ends with your thumb on top and the back of your hand facing away from the body. With the long yumi at least using a yugake glove because of the hard thumb and slight grove in which the string is retained, your hand position ends with the back of the hand facing upwards at an angle, the top of the hand/thumb facing forwards towards the bow. The second point is that you don't literally look down the arrow as that's pointing to the right of the target ~ the target itself is largely obscured by the bow. The combination of hand position and arrow angle actually lifts the string path away from the face. The only times you'll hit the face is if you're not looking forward over your left shoulder or you've overdrawn the bow with your right elbow further back than the line of your back ~ both of those will obviously close the gap between face and string.

    Does that make sense?
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2009
  11. Christophe of Grey

    Christophe of Grey Cordwainer to Royals

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    So you are then using a thumb draw instead of a finger draw? If that's the case I can see how that would move the string away from the face/head. I have tried the thumb draw and quite frankly, I'm lucky if I can hit the ground!

    You had mentioned that your Japanese bow seemed slower than your other bows yet was a powerful bow. Somewhere along the line with my obsession here I read that the longer the string stays in contact with the arrow nock the more power gets transfered to the arrow. The article was talking about brace heights and why they differe but it seems the same principle applies here.

    A few years back I saw a Combat Archer coming off the battle field at Pennsic with a beautiful Japanese asymetrical bow. My thought was "Are they an idiot? Taking a bow that nice and that expensive out on the battle field?" Combat Archers quite often get jostled about unmercifully by the heavies clad in metal with shields and sticks flying. My combat bow is a $40 USD fiberglass job that you could drive nails with and it would still work. I'll save the beautiful bows for target shooting.
     
  12. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    Yes it's a thumb release ~ you can't miss, it's the power of zen lol.

    The yumi is the lightest of my bows (the next lightest is 20% higher poundage) so that may well be part of the comparative issue. The yumi also starts with a higher bracing height so part of that longer power stroke is negated. The length of the bow itself may well also decrease speed at the same time as making it more stable? I'm not an expert on bow-making / dynamics :) Final comment on the yumi.... it's an absolute nightmare to string because of it's length, it's very easy to twist out of shape and it uses a traditional hemp string.
     
  13. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

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    Wait wait, so you actually live in London (Greater London)?

    I was unaware that such a facility was so close. I may have to look into it.
     
  14. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    Close to London yes :)

    There's plenty of archery clubs in and around London ~ field, target & kyudo
     
  15. Christophe of Grey

    Christophe of Grey Cordwainer to Royals

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    I saw a picture in a text discussing the English Longbow and the men who shot it. The picture showed bracing the bow by hooking one limb tip in front of your foot with the bow coming up the back of the archer, string in front. To brace the bow, the archer grabbed the upper limb tip over his shoulder, pulled it forward and slid the string up to the limb nock. Describing it in text makes it sound way more difficult that it looked. The logic was a true ELB was generally taller than the man who shot it. Just and idea.

    There is a guy who comes to Pennsic and Gulf Wars on occasion who is a very good shot. He shoots exclusively REAL horse bows. Read here, those made from horn, antler, raw hide and all. Of course they cost $1000's USD. He was bracing one he uses a lot, a 90 pound bow. He braced it across his knees while someone else actually put the string on. He could not brace the bow by himself. Nice but I have always felt a 30 pound bow set up properly can cast an arrow about 125 yards which is more than plenty for the type of shooting I do. I do not need to impress my Kahn to become an archer by hitting targets 200 - 300 yards out. I would also like to be able to shoot all day long. If I used a 90 bow, after I shot I could tie my shoes without bending over! (Arm stretch) A good 45 pound bow seems a very good compromise. Fairly flat trajectory and I can shoot it all day long.
     
  16. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    Well I'm excited, I'm actually getting to have a shoot this Saturday. I occasionally go hunting plastic 2L milk bottles at a group with a bush field setup. All the recurve and compound bulseye-hunters shoot in the opposite direction on the oval, and us sightless old schoolers tromp around the bush, shooting between branches, long range, into ditches, at hanging targets - a bit of everything really.

    The guy who made my bow is a crack shot, pretty much all the people shooting this course use bows made by him :) He's a career carpnter so for him, working with wood and hand tools is second nature.
     
  17. Christophe of Grey

    Christophe of Grey Cordwainer to Royals

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    Just for sharing purposes, the Southern Atlantian Archery Day, SAAD as we call it, is coming up soon. I'm the person in charge of designing and running the shoots. On the plate this year will be 12 field stations. Some will be static non moving targets. Some of these will be what I call qualifier shoots. That is, you must hit the three Vikings guarding the gold before you can steal their gold by hitting it. We have moving targets. A windmill with one foot square targets on four arms that rotate at about 30 yards. We have a single pendulum and a double pendulum where the targets swing oppostie each other. We have a clout shot with three targets. The first at about 65 yard, next at 80 yards, one at 95 yards and final at 125 yards. We have knock down targets. And this year our new one will be a whack-a-mole target with things that pop up to be hit. WE also have a skunk down the pole target that starts at the top of a 20 foot pole then "climbs" down the pole while archers try to shoot it.

    We will also have a woods walk course with about 12 - 15 targets. These shoots will be hunter style so the archers are shooting through bushes, around trees, under branches and down "alleys" in the woods. Last year I put a crow target in the crotch of a tree and when I went back to retrieve the target it looked like the wood peckers from hell had attacked the tree!

    We also have a night shoot. Yes, shooting arrows at night. It will either be a target lit only by cylume sticks or maybe a shoot through the castle window shoot lit only by Tiki torches.

    Also new this year will be a target-in-the-lake. We will put a Viking ship in the lake and archers have to shoot it before it lands.

    We atarted this shoot three years ago and it was an immediate success. Every year it has grown in size. Last year we had over 100 archers and about 150 - 175 people in attendance. It's all in period garb with traditional bows.

    Oh, almost forgot, this year, due to the Viking theme, we are going to include an axe throw station.

    I'll have pictures when it's over.
     
  18. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    That sounds good fun ~ a bit of everything. Moving targets are great :)
     
  19. Christophe of Grey

    Christophe of Grey Cordwainer to Royals

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    Moving targets - So, it was one of those "you know you're REALLY into it when" moments. My wife and I were on vacation spending our first week in London. We met up with some friends from Florida and were doing the "theater thing". Sitting in the production of Lion King, a rather remarkable staged event, I'm actually diagraming ideas for targets! Well I was also appreciating the production but......... The heard of antelope. What a cool idea. Build it on wheels with other geared wheels that would cause the targets, mounted on rods attached to the wheels off center, to not only move back and forth but also up and down. Much like the lopping antelopes.

    Yes, aflicted, commited (or needs to be commited), or just not right in the head. Archery, it's my thing!

    Moving targets are the best.

    So here is a very simple one I set up at our practice this past Sunday. Using 1 1/2 inch PVC piping, 'cuz it's real easy to work, I made an upright about 5 feet tall. Stuck a 2 inch piece in the ground as the stabilizer with the 1 1/2 inch piece inside. Then another piece of 1 1/2 inch with a T fitting in the middle. The T piece sits atop the upright. On the each end of the T is a pulley. Through the pulley is a piece of rope long enough such that if either end touches the ground it's opposite is at the top, at the pulley. On the end of the rope ends are S hooks. Onto each S hook you put a plastic sandwich bag half filled with water. Now this is a challenge shoot. Whoever hits their bag to empty it first wins when their bag goes to the top and their opponent's bag hits the ground. I brought it out and the archers went crazy and didn't want to shoot anything else. Cool, cuz it's portable as well.

    If folks on this list are interested I have a list of some 50 - 60 shoot ideas that I am more than willing to share. Just let me know.
     
  20. Christophe of Grey

    Christophe of Grey Cordwainer to Royals

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    You know, it struck me that my signature block says Creator of Medieval Accessories. When this forum had a photos section (that I could figure out) I had a whole bunch of pictures loaded. They are now gone. So let me share a few of the things I've made here.

    The first is a side style quiver based on a 15th century Italian quiver.
    Next a basket weave arm guard. I now make them with deer antler buttons.
    Nest a back style quiver with a Celtic dog and Celtic man inside knottwork. I gave this quiver to a kid at an event. I don't like back style quivers.
    Next a commision. This person wanted an Elven style quiver aka Lord of the Rings. It was his design. It is double layered, which doesn't need to be to create the effect he was after. The strap has Elven swirls on it as well.
     

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