Most Powerful

Discussion in 'Books' started by Mystarian, Feb 6, 2007.

  1. mattymoron

    mattymoron New Member

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    If you mean in terms of strength, it would definetly be Tulkas, even Melkor fled before him. If you mean all-around most powerful (power, wisdom, etc) then it would porabably be Manwe. Illuvatar did choose him to watch over Arda after all.
     
  2. Haflor

    Haflor New Member

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    I say Tom Bombadil because he came before all magical creatures. He was there at the beginning so therfore nothing can harm him, nothing can affect him, not eve the ring which has the ability to control all beings in Middle Earth, except Tom Bombadil. Ol' Tom is the most powerful.
     
  3. Elkean

    Elkean New Member

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    I say Tom Bombadil because he came before all magical creatures. He was there at the beginning so therfore nothing can harm him, nothing can affect him, not even the ring which has the ability to control all beings in Middle Earth, except Tom Bombadil. Ol' Tom is the most powerful.
     
  4. Wrathen

    Wrathen New Member

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    I really, really, really wish I had said that. She is my favorite, and the most powerful, in my opinion - I also like that she refused the ring when Frodo offered it.
     
  5. CAWahl

    CAWahl New Member

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    I think Tom was in a sense the most powerful person. He could touch the ring and not be at all affected by it, to him it was just a piece of in-ornate jewelry. The only thing that Tom has bad going for him is just that, everything to him is just a game. He has his River-Daughter and his lands and until it is harmed he will never move; to me power is more then just strength, it is using that strength to help others, something he only does occasionally.
     
  6. Kelmourne

    Kelmourne The Savage Hippy

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    Sauron for sure. With his one ring he becomes uber-powerful. He also enginered the downfall of Numenor.
     
  7. Hazelnut

    Hazelnut New Member

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    I'd have to say Gandalf. Even after he becomes Gandalf the White, his magic is still really strong.
     
  8. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Sauron seems to be very powerful, but easily defeated too, so no I don't think he is the most for sure.
     
  9. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

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    Gandalf, Saruman and Sauron are all Maiar so that makes them the top 3 contenders.

    Saruman has fallen before to Sauron's influence and Gandalf has slapped him up already and "broken his staff". Therefore it's between Gandalf and Sauron. I'm not really sure who is more powerful, but I know it's between them to.

    I'm ignoring Tom because nothing is explained about him really so you can't really consider him without any viable information.
     
  10. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    In the Council meeting in Rivendale when they decide on the fate of the One Ring the idea of giving the Ring to Tom is suggested. Gandaulf answers this by saying that whilst Tom would have the power to both resist and keep the One Ring - he also be a bad custodian as the Ring would not concern him - he would in time forget that he was protecting it or that it is important at all.
    This leads people to several ideas:
    1) that Tom is not affected by short term changes in Middle Earth - that being the change of powers and rulers - and that land ownership and orc density is not a concern

    2) that Tom is very powerful - more so than the current powers of Middle Earth - some have taken this to be that he is the creator of all (I forget his name - its burried in Silmarmillion somewhere)

    I think in the end, though, we don't know much about Tom to say if he is powerful or not - importantly we have to determin first what sort of power we are refering to. I don't know if he could smash the walls of Gondor with a single fist - or if his power is in resisting the changes of the world - like the forests and wild places resist by waiting for change.

    Saruman and Gandalf are equal in power - the only difference was after the fall of Saruman and the killing of the Balrog Gandaulf was sent back - infact he was sent back to be as Saruman once was - which hints that he had the same powers bistowed upon him - in addition to the powers of Gandulf the Grey.
    This is interesting as it suggests that the 5 Wizards were sent with differeing powers -- despite being from the same spices and posessed of similar skills
     
  11. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

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    You mean that Tom is Eru Illuvitar?

    Well, that can't be said for sure really. In reference to Bombadil, Tolkien himself said that some things should remain mysterious in any narrative, hidden even to its inventor.

    Well when Gandalf became the White all that happened is that that Eru rezzed him so he could sort shit out.
     
  12. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    nope - I think he was given additional powers. Further the nature of himself changed - Gandulf the Grey was very much a worker behind the scenes - he was origanly chosen to lead the white council, but gave the position to Saruman because he wished to remain in the background.
    When he changed to the white he gaind Saruman's working at the fore position - to lead rather than guide from the background - that I think came with a change of powers he was allowed to use I think.

    And there are those who think Tom was Tolkien in his world - we will never know the truth though !
     
  13. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    I don't think it's particularly surprising that the wizards (maiar) were of differing strengths of skills as they surely reflect the Ainur which they served.

    For example Gandalf was of the the house of Manwë the leader of the Ainur. Manwë was the greatest of the Ainur along with Melkor (Morgoth) who Sauron later came to serve ~ he was originally of Aulë's house. However both Manwë and Melkor would fall short in a physical contest with Tulkas. Melkor would likely have the edge over Manwë' as he was prepared to use evil which Manwë couldn't comprehend. Saruman too was of the house of Aulë the Smith so it was not surprising that he sought to increase his power with physically crafted things/beings. Radagast was of the house of Yavanna so had a natural affinity to plants and animals like Yavanna. Alatar and Pallando (the 'blue' wizards) are both associated with Oromë but little else is known about them.

    Of the three in MiddleEarth it would probably be Sauron (with ring) who had the greatest individual power. However that was before Gandalf became Gandalf the White. Tolkien has implied that he was sent back by a power greater than the Valar, so Eru took a personal hand in things. Why would he do do that unless he intended the world to go in a particular direction?

    Tom = Illuvitar? Possibility or one of the ainur but most likely a guardian of the planet itself?
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2008
  14. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

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    I didn't say he wasn't given additional powers. I'm just saying that he was rezzed by Eru, so that he could sort shit out. Not to mention he's kind of "immortal" being Maia and what not.

    Well Elladan, one's skill and power is not always measured by who they served under. You also forget that Gandalf served under Varda whom Melkor fears and hates the most.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2008
  15. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    ^ That's true but they're more likely to mirror their mentor in application of skills (?)
     
  16. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

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    Possibly in the types of skill they use, but not in the quality of their skill use.
     
  17. Kelmourne

    Kelmourne The Savage Hippy

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    It's printed early on in the lord of the rings encyclopedia which also states that Tom and the maker of the world (Iluvatar) are different.
     
  18. Swordmaster

    Swordmaster Swordmaster

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    Since a 'thing' is a possibility in this topic, I would lay claim to "selfishness".

    It is the one thing that no person can withstand nor defend against. It is that which drives us to such ends as becoming murderers and saviors.

    It is that which governs our everyday lives.
     
  19. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

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    You can't wield selfishness against others, all it does is provide drive. You would also need a source for the selfishness to arise of which there are too many to really make it "a powerful thing".
     
  20. Swordmaster

    Swordmaster Swordmaster

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    At no point did the first post say that it had to be something you "wield - against others".

    Selfish is gives reason, without reason we would not be able to 'live'.

    Technology was a product of our selfishness, as were many things.



    No, one does not need a 'source' of selfishness. All it means is that one will do things because it benefits them. There is no source in that. If anything selfishness is the source.


    Saying something like selfishness is not a powerful 'thing' is foolish. It is that which makes and breaks people.
     
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