More Religion Woes.

Discussion in 'Polls' started by Kakashi, Mar 9, 2008.

?

Are you still following your parents religion?

  1. Yes. I still belive in my parents religion.

    34.9%
  2. No. I have converted to another religion.

    11.6%
  3. No. I have dropped religion altogether.

    53.5%
  1. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Homer's Odyssey is much older. Should we believe everything written in it is true, just because of its age?
     
  2. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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  3. Galadriel71

    Galadriel71 New Member

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    Not at all, but you have to realize, that there isn't a single word in the bible that has been disproven, whether it's the name of a city of the name of a person, there has never been ANYTHING that anyone has ever found, that's real evidence to disprove the Bible. Of course, people have their own ideas, but every fact and statement in the Bible has been found true.
     
  4. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    I beg to differ. Alot.

    On top of that, there are many things in the bible that have not been proven.

    Here is one that is not proven at all.
    "Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. "Learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see all these things, know that he is near, at the gates. Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. (Matthew 24:29-35 NAB)

    Matthew 16:28 “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

    Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. (Mark 13:30-31 NAB)

    "Truly I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:27 NAB)

    Well, that generation has gone and passed many times over.

    And I am quite certain that the human race sprang from the incest of 2 people and their kids has been disproven. Or someone sure liked their mama.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2008
  5. Galadriel71

    Galadriel71 New Member

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    Those are quotes refering to the future, and whereas the future hasn't happened yet, it can not be disproven.

    And as far as foretelling is in the Bible, it was always accurate to the letter. In the First book of the Bible (Genesis) there are many referances dealing with the fall of man saying that someone would come to redeem man from sin, and throughout all of the old testament there are hundreds of prophesies spoken of. And they were all fulfilled. There are historical artifacts, scrolls, writings, many different things that prove this, not only the Bible, but all over the Middle east they are continually finding things that perfectly corralate with EXACTLY what the Bible says, and the prophesies in Genesis refering to Jesus were written at least 4,000 years before he was on the earth. And the dozens of prophesies in Isaiah were written about 900 years BC.

    I gotta leave you with that for now, I gotta go to work. I'll continue tomorrow when I get home or so.
     
  6. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    It said "this generation shall not pass". Well, um, yeah thats the "future" from when it was spoken (albeit not a far off future), but a generation is not 2000 years. So, no, that prophecy is wrong. It did not come to pass. That generation came and went MANY times over. Even the original greek word for generation means the same in ours. Thus "this generation" clearly refers to "during someones lifetime" and those someones were the ones living then, and they are all dead and gone. Did you not read it? I can quote it again for you.

    And there are many Jews who would argue that Jesus did not fulfill all the prophecies.

    The way I see it, to put faith in prophecies and some dusty book written by man, assembled by man, edited by man, changed by man, altered by man, is a fallacy in itself.

    I still see no evidence that the bible is "accurate to the letter". How can it be so? How can it be inerrant?
    Every book was written by man. Flaws enter thusly. Every translation, written and interpreted by man, more flaws. Combined into "The Bible" by man, more flaws. Voted on which books should be included and excluded, more flaws. Then, the protestants come along and remove certain books from the "original" catholic bible because they didnt like them, more flaws. That last one there shows that there are errors in the bible as well as with those who use the bible.

    Then Noah's flood. First, its impossible for the entire earth to be flooded. Barometric would be so high it would crush all of noah and his animals. Then if you want to go with, well all of the known world was flooded, which there is evidence, clear evidence, that there was a large flood, that covered most of the KNOWN world. So, there is some evidence that there was a flood, not that it was Noah. There have been many, many, many stories written about a great flood, but the thing is, all of them were before the "Noah's" version by hundreds upon hundreds, if not thousands of years.
    Yet another errant "fact" from the bible.
    Then lets not get into the hundreds upon hundreds of contradictions that exist with in the bible.

    And all of this is coming from someone who believes in God and follows the teachings of Christ. Yet, I keep my faith under scrutiny and follow what I feel is right not what some old fogy is yelling from a pulpit. God gave us this power to reason and think for ourselves for a reason.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2008
  7. Galadriel71

    Galadriel71 New Member

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    The flood in the Bible, which Noah was apart of, was the reason for the splitting of continents and the moving of land, and the making of today's mountains, hills, rivers, and valleys. When the water receded, it formed many of today's mountains, whereas, at the time of the actual flood there would have not been that high of mountains.

    I myself have climbed mount Cotopaxi in Ecuador, and found it littered with seashells . . and how did they get there? Squirrels? Monkeys? Ecuadorian natives? No . . HMM . . a world wide flood world explain it. The stories of floods you mentioned were also ripoffs of Noah's flood. For your stories have no historical proof or acuracy to back them up. Barometric pressure and the rest of all the weather is controlled by God himself, so, even if it would have caused trouble . . which it wouldn't have anyway. God could and would have easily taken care of it.

    The Dead Sea Scrolls and the "Q" documents, (written about 2,000 years ago) are original manuscripts of much of the Old Testament and a lot of the New Testament also. They were not the manusripts that the King James' men used to translate the Bible, (Obviously). Yet the DD SEA SCRLLS and the "Q" document match, which were written in Hebrew and Greek match perfectly with the manuscripts, also written in Hebrew and Greek, that King James used 1500 years later. Coincidence? I don't think so.

    God wrote the Bible . . not men.

    2 Timothy 3:16: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." (KJV).

    A second popular verse which supports the concept of inspiration is in one of the General Epistles:

    2 Peter 1:20-21: "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (KJV)"

    And, what you've said about Generations and all. First, you're prolly getting it from a modern translation. And modern translations are basically watered-down or paraphrases of the Bible. And they themselves are not accurate.

    Faith? In all seriousness . . look at it this way. I take it you don't believe in Heaven or Hell, and in saying that you believe that you can do whatever you want without and correction.
    That means if you're right in what you believe . . then you and I both can do whatever we want and in the end we'll just die and go to dirt. And all that we've done won't matter. In that case. We both win.

    But, if I'm right. Then someday, I'll go to Heaven, and God will say, "Well done, my good and faithful servant." And you on the other hand he will say, "Depart from me, I never knew you." And you'll spend eternity in a lake fire called hell . . not so pretty.

    See, either way, I'm good. What about you though?
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2008
  8. DangerBird

    DangerBird New Member

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    No. I have dropped religion altogether.
     
  9. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    Edit: decided not to repeat myself. I have already discussed this in other threads and well....yeah...sooooooooooo I deleted half of this. I really wanted someone to finally respond the apparent failed prophesy of the "end times". It was a typical response that yielded no answer.

    But anyways as long as what you believe makes you happy and does not harm others, nor try to force it upon others, then alls well.



    What about me? you ask.

    I am perfectly happy with the way I believe. In all honesty I am more happy now than when I believed like you. I see things the way they are, not through religious eyes. I am confident that if there is an after life ( and yes I say if, because there is no way to be certain until after death) that I will be in good standing. I live a moral life, not because of promise of reward or punishment, because thats how people should believe.
    I like this by Einstein
    Anyways, I was slightly mistaken earlier. I said I am a Christian, which is true, but I am also a Deist, as in I believe in God, just that he is not as active in the world as some say so. I believe a bit more than average Deists, as I believe in Jesus, but I am of the faith that God started everything way back when (billions upon billions and trillions of years ago) and now just lets things go.

    As to the actual topic at hand. I picked the last one. Because I do not follow any Religion, Religion is nothing more than man-made traditions that do nothing but hurt people. I say this and some might get offended. I personally have not seen the good in religion. I have heard arguments for the good of it, but never yet seen it in action. As this is what I have seen then this is how I perceive.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2008
  10. Galadriel71

    Galadriel71 New Member

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    Nah, you believe what you want to believe. I don't in any way try to force what I believe on others. But, as a follower of Jesus Christ I am always more than ready and willing to share with others what I believe.
     
  11. Herbivorous

    Herbivorous New Member

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    Religion is nothing but a tool of the megatheocorporatocracy. Nobody needs it, why are people still worshiping imaginary deities anyway?
     
  12. Galadriel71

    Galadriel71 New Member

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    I just noticed what you said about, "Typical response, that yielded no answer". For one thing, before you pull a few verses out of the Bible make sure you know what context they are written in, and what they are actually refering to, so yeah, I looked up what you quoted from the Bible, and Matthew 16:28, it's talking about Christians who havn't died when Christ returns, their bodies will be physically removed when the rapture takes place, but spirtually they will never die.


    When it says, "This generation will not be passed away till these things be done." It's talking about the people living during the tribulation also. By the end of the tribulation heaven and earth will pass away, and be replaced by the new Jerusalem.

    And Luke 9:27 is a requote from Matthew.

    That wasn't so hard . . just to let you know . . before you go out trying yo disprove something, you should try to know what you're disproving first. It's pretty sad when non-Christians or unbelievers bash me for what I believe or try to disprove what I believe when they just make themselves look like idiots because what they said has NOTHING to do with what they're trying to prove. And don't take a few random verses in the Bible and try to argue . . it's pathetic, if people would read the WHOLE Bible before they try to disprove it then they would have alot less to say. So, sorry if you think I'm getting upset, but it's so typical for so many people to say things when they have no idea what you're talking about.
     
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  13. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    edit: nevermind, still typical.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2008
  14. Galadriel71

    Galadriel71 New Member

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    Ich habe so gedacht, und, das war traurig.

    . . I guess that the fact that me being a Christian makes me simple-minded . . makes everything that I say, and that don't have an answer for . . . "typical".
     
  15. Nynaeve

    Nynaeve <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    What are you talking about? Alchemist IS a Christian, and one of the most logical and open-minded one I've ever met. Take this to the debate forum, that's the place for this. And by the way, thanks for saying that you think I'm going to spend eternity in hell, for simply not believing as you do.

    I voted no, I have dropped religion altogether.
    I was raised Catholic, and went to a Catholic school from preschool to 8th grade. The older I got, the more disgusted I was by what I saw. Anytime you stepped of of line, questioned or did not follow 'god's' rules, you were told you were going to hell, and lectured about it frequently. The priest drove an expensive spots car, sucked up to all the rich old ladies and brushed off the poorer parishioners, and even stole money from the student council to pay the church's bills. The money was for a class trip, and was not replaced by him, the parents had to pay more. The majority of the people were judgmental, snobby and all about money and their image, while cloaking themselves in religious righteousness. It was awful, and I hated it there. My entire family ended up feeling the same way, and are no longer going to that church. I broke away altogether.

    I know all churches are not like that, but that experience has soured me against it. Especially after the corruption of the church and it's priests, and it's views against gays and using personal religious beliefs to keep gay people from getting married. That's what I believe anyway. :)
     
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  16. Galadriel71

    Galadriel71 New Member

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    I didn't say you're going to hell, I didn't say anyone was going to hell, for one, I can't judge the heart of someone and decide whether on not they're going to hell, I didn't write the Bible, God did. And God will comdemn people to hell, but it's not his choice as to who decides to go there, every human makes that choice here on earth. I'm sorry that it sounded that way, I wasn't trying to say that I think you're going to hell, forgive me though. And Alchemist is a denominational Christian, and I don't even know how many denominations there are in the world, and differnent denominations believe different things, but, denominations don't decide where we go when we die, as such, I can't decide where he or anyone is going when they die.
     
  17. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    As you have still not posted in the Debate thread I will post one more comment here. Herod died in 4 B.C., Augustus held his census in 6 A.D. How does that not prove Matthew to be wrong?
     
  18. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    After you answer Unraveller, who I commend for trying to take this to the debate section but apparently receives no answers there, I would like you to show me the all the prophecies that you say Jesus fullfilled.
    You said he fulfilled every single prophecy and that the Bible is 100% true no matter what.
    So, I ask of you, show me these prophecies. I have a list of my own I want to compare to.
    (again I seem to have to put this in my posts when discussing this subject, just because I question my faith and the bible does not make me a non-christian. I follow nothing blindly anymore, I had a similar experience to Nyn's and since then I have learned to use my brain)
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2008
  19. Kelmourne

    Kelmourne The Savage Hippy

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    The planets are accelerating in my opinion (which btw is VERY uneducated on the matter) because, for example, when you hit a marble, at the very instant you hit it it accelerates. Now with the universe because it is bigger, that instant is stretched out over the current lifespan of the universe and more to come. Either that or there is some mass outside the universe pulling it apart with gravity. But im sure it gets much more complicated than that so ill stop.
     
  20. Galadriel71

    Galadriel71 New Member

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    I have posted a new forum under debates.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2008