More mail photos

Discussion in 'General Weapons & Armour' started by Patrick Kelly, Nov 21, 2005.

  1. Patrick Kelly

    Patrick Kelly New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Here are a few photos of my newly altered hauberk. We braved a blustery southwest Kansas afternoon and managed to get these done before the rain hit.

    Reference this earlier photo of the hauberk's original shape.
    [​IMG]
    From the medieval faire in August.
    [​IMG]
    Now observe the improved version. Notice the improved hang of the hauberk's skirt, as well as the added length. The newer rings haven't oxidized yet and you can see the additions due to the difference in color.
    [​IMG]
    From behind. One of my alterations was to insert a diamond shaped gore in between my shoulder blades. This eliminates any binding during movement. In this photo I have my right arm thrown back and you can see a bit of slack in the center of the gore, this denotes it's position.
    [​IMG]
    From the side. Due to light reflection you can just make out the triangular gore on the side of the skirt. It reaches to just below my belt.
    [​IMG]
    Behind cover. In the first photo I have one leg farther back than the other, hence the gap in the skirt's slit. You can just see the slit here and this gives a truer indication of how it now hangs together. The slit is also longer now and terminates just below my belt.
    [​IMG]
    I couldn't resist this one. :D
    [​IMG]
    Here's a close-up that gives you a better idea of the ring construction. (It was quite windy and I had problems with my tunic blowing up all over the place. It gives me sympathy for our skirt wearing better halves!)
    [​IMG]
    This one's my favorite of the bunch.
    [​IMG]

    All in all I added between five and six thousand rings to the hauberk, and maybe one or two hundred to the coif. The total weight of the hauberk, coif, and helm is now an even 40 pounds. This has been a very worthwhile endeavor for me. I've enjoyed this project and it's been quite the learning experience.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2006
  2. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,705
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    West Australia
    Ratings:
    +186 / 1 / -0
    Lovely details on your costume Patrick. My Norman costume is far from complete and nowhere near as good as yours!

    I love the belt fittings too. And the braid on your tunic, and the leg wraps etc etc....
    Did you make your shoes or buy them from somewhere? Period footwear is one of the last thigns our members tend to purchase due to high cost.

    I'm getting my friend who's making my coif to add a Norman face covering flap of mail as well. Any recommendations for attaching it, and how and where? There are so many designs to choose from.

    And where did you get that beautiful sword? Is it a blunt edge for re-enactment, or a sharpie? My group uses a 3mm edge as standard so it's hard to get that lovely edged look unless you make a 1.5 - 2mm edge for advanced combat (which then gets eaten alive by the 3mm edges!).
     
  3. Patrick Kelly

    Patrick Kelly New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Thanks!

    The shoes were purchased here:
    http://www.revivalclothing.com/catpages/cat_lowboots.htm

    The quality of these is well worth the cost.

    The sword is very sharp, and made by Swedish swordsmith Peter Johnsson.
    More here: http://www.myarmoury.com/review_pj_bj.html
    You'll never meet a finer man or own a finer sword. Peter is better at recreating the medieval sword than anyone I've ever met.

    I don't do the re-enactment thing anymore. I used to years ago but don't have much of an opportunity anymore. Consequently all of my weapons are sharp.

    The belt fittings were purchased here: http://www.quietpress.com/

    I haven't gone with a strict Norman flavor with this kit, more of an Anglo-Norman thing. This allows me to incorporate different stylistic things like the nordic belt fittings and the running-dog pattern trim. My justification is that this look represents a high ranking Saxon who's survived the Norman invasion and has made a successfull transition to Norman power, or perhaps a Norman who's been given holdings in England post-conquest and has gone a bit "native". At least that's my excuse.

    You'll notice that I've gone with a seperate coif rather than an integeral one. This is largely because I intend to use these mail bits for different interpretations so flexibility is needed. Some will tell you that a proper Norman hauberk has to have an integeral coif. As with most other aspects of this period that's impossible to establish due to the fragmentary evidence. The primary source for the 11th century is the Bayeux Tapestry, yet the BT is far too vague and stylistic on most pointys to be used as a definitive reference. On the other hand, the BT shows men with what appear to be integeral coifs, some that appear to be seperate, and some without a coif at all. There are also earlier Byzantine sources that clearly mention a seperate coif, so it was a known feature.

    Another reason for my choice of the seperate coif is that I hate the classic norman "bib" style ventail. I hate the way it looks and I refuse to wear the idiotic looking thing. If you choose to attach one to the front of a hauberk it should be long enough to cover your kneck up to below your chin. It shouldn't cover the face. Period effegies and statuary indicate this. I wouldn't mind going with an integeral ventail ala 12th century, but that's a bit later that this period. So I decided to go with the seperate coif. Granted, the wide mantle is a bit doubtfull for the period but a seperate coif is a distinct possibility.
     
  4. Patrick Kelly

    Patrick Kelly New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    A few close-ups of the sword.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  5. alwyn

    alwyn New Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Damn nice outfit Patrick. Good to see the winnegas wrapped properly instead of crossgartered and the attention to detail. Shoes make an outfit go from good to great.
    Want to move to Perth and support mububbans norman conquest?
     
  6. Jessehk

    Jessehk The introverted

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Messages:
    3,448
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Ontario , Canada
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    I love that sword; it's really fantastic. I really should try to learn more about historical weaponry (and get out of my archery slump. You know, the one where you can't make one good shot all of a sudden, and it just lasts.)
     
  7. Patrick Kelly

    Patrick Kelly New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Here's a photo fresh off the UB cable. Here I'm wearing my new braise and chausses from Revival Clothing. This is an interesting experience in "freedom". :eek: I've added another inch to the hauberk's skirt and am now satisfied with the length and the color of the rings now matches due to a vinegar treatment. As you can see I finally bowed to my inner authenti-nazi and removed the machine-made trim. :(
    [​IMG]

    Thanks go to the brave Mrs. Kelly for braving the sub-zero cold to man the shutter. Of course when she went back inside to get a coat I told her, "Quit being a girl, I'm fine."

    What does everyone think, winningas or no? I think it looks a bit more 'Norman' without them but I'm on the fence.

    Thank you for the compliments gentlemen.

    Jessehk,

    I started in this hobby years ago with things in the fantasy genre. The good thing about it is the more you learn the more you realize that thr truth is as interesting as fiction, often more so. And the sword is a beauty. I've collected them for 25 years and I've never owned a better one of this type.

    Alwyn,

    The wife might have a problem moving to Australia but I might be able to con her into a visit. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2005
  8. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2005
    Messages:
    15,018
    Likes Received:
    306
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    In the hearts and minds of us all
    Ratings:
    +306 / 0 / -0
    very nice equipment, i especally like the sword and chain mail (is that the right term?)

    Ps. how much, (just a very wild estimate :)) does it cost to start out with buying a medival outfit. Because eventually i would like to get into something like this possibly. Pleas e-mail or pm me. Thank you
     
  9. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,705
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    West Australia
    Ratings:
    +186 / 1 / -0
    Chain mail - from USD$200 - USD$400

    Real sharp sword - from USD$200, the sky's the limit depending on the smith and the materials used

    Costume - linens, cottons and wools aren't hugely expensive, so the clothign part is quite cheap in comparison

    Period leather shoes - from USD$100 (?)

    Period belt buckles and belt ends etc - from USD$10
     
  10. Patrick Kelly

    Patrick Kelly New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Hard kit

    Helmet: $75.00 (There was a screw up in delivery on this helmet so Stephen Brown of Get Dressed For Battle picked up the shipping as a goodwill gesture, other wise the cost would have doubled.)
    Coif: $285.00 from Historic Enterprises
    Hauberk: $420.00 (A rough estimate combining the original shirt's cost and the cost of the additional rings.)
    Spear: $180.00 from Arms & Armor
    Shield: Free. (Kindly donated by Allan Senefelder of The Mercenary's Tailor. Allan wanted to show support for my efforts and gave me a small anvil free of charge as well. Very gracious of Allan and much much appreciated.) I do have another shield coming that will serve as an alternative so we'll tack on an additional $100.00 for that.
    Sword: $600.00 (this refers to the sword purchased specifically for this kit not the one featured in the photos. That one cost more than everything else combined.)

    Let's add maybe $20.00 for paint.

    Soft kit (It's clothing, not a costume!)

    Tunic: $50.00 for material
    Chausses and Braies: $80.00 from Revival Clothing
    Boots: $75.00 also from Revival Clothing
    Belt: $45.00 leather from Tandy and fittings from Raymond's Quiet Press
    (A gambeson will eventually be added but no guess on the cost of materials as of yet.)

    Rough total cost: $1930.00

    The correct term is simply 'mail', with no "chain", "ring", "scale", or anything else in front of it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2006
Search tags for this page

norman hauberk

,
scabbard with integrated belt