Melkor and Men

Discussion in 'Debates' started by Liadan, Mar 22, 2005.

  1. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    In Morgoth's Ring, an earlier version of the Silmarillion, it was written:

    It's also written that "Ilúvatar willed that the hearts of Men should seek beyond the world and... have a virtue to fashion their life, amid the powers and chances of the world, beyond the Music of the Ainur, which is as fate to all things else." However, this doesn't really give Melkor a reason to fear Men; although they can shape their own destinies, they stray the most often out of all the races.

    So... why does Melkor fear Men?
     
  2. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Maybe because they too are the Children Of Illuvatar, and some among Men have done great deeds. Look at characters like Beren, Turin, and Aragorn. All mortal Men who achieved great things against the Enemy (wether Melkor or Sauron).

    Besides that, I can't really think of any reason he would fear Men. Perhaps because their fate was unknown to even him, and he did not know much about them. Fear and uncertainty go hand in hand. Perhaps it was fear of the unknown, or their sheer numbers. Certainly he had cause to be afraid of characters such as Beren, who wrested a Silmaril from his Iron Crown.
     
  3. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    That's true, but that's also only a few characters. Melkor was never able to corrupt elves as in willingly make them come to his side (orcs were tortured), but there were lots of Men on his side. Even in Numenor, he managed to persuade Ar-Pharazon to declare war on the Valar, and in his wars, he had men fighting FOR him, while elves always fought against him. Yet he fears men more than Elves.

    This is kind of a paradox, I guess.
     
  4. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Hm, I dont know where you got this from. The Eldar definently bore the brunt of Morgoth's hatred, and I believe he feared them more than Men (though the Numenorean's and Dunedain would be but a step behind). The Elves were a more powerful race than Men, and as a whole, had caused him more damage and strife than any other race combined.

    Perhaps this was, as you said, just a mistake featured in an early version of The Silmarillion. I can't recall if that passage is in the finished Silmarillion, but Im positive there is something similiar. Anyway, I guess its open ground for speculation.
     
  5. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Yup, which is why I posted it.
    Any other input?
     
  6. Elfdaughter

    Elfdaughter Art House Member

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    It could be that he fears the gift that was bestowed on Man by Illuvatar - where DO they go when they die? What happens to them? As you say, fear and uncertainty goes hand in hand.
     
  7. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Since this thread has been bumped back to life, I guess its a good time to quote the Second Prophecy Of Mandos, about the Dagor Dagorath, which could shed some light on the situation :

    Prophecy of The Last Battle
    Thus spake Mandos in prophecy, when the Gods sat in judgment in Valinor and the rumour of his word was whispered among all the Elves of the West.
    "When the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of the Night out of the timeless void ; and he shall destroy the Sun and the Moon.
    But Eärendil shall descend upon him as a white and searing flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day, Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Eonwë, and on his left Turin Turambar, son of Hurin, coming from the halls of Mandos; and the Black Sword of Turin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end; and so shall the children of Hurin and all Men be avenged.
    Thereafter shall Earth be broken and remade, and the Silmarils shall be recovered out of Air and Earth and Sea; for Eärendil shall descend and surrender that flame which he hath had in keeping. Then Fëanor shall take the Three Jewels and bear them to Yavanna Palurien; and she will break them and with their fire rekindle the Two Trees, and a great light shall come forth. And the mountains of Valinor shall be leveled, so that the light shall go out over all the world. In that light the Gods will grow young again, and the Elves awake and all their dead arise, and the purpose of Iluvatar be fulfilled concerning them.
    But of Men in that day the prophecy of Mandos doth not speak, and no Man it names, save Turin only, and to him a place is given among the sons of the Valar.

    Thus everything dies
    but only mortals die forever
    the others watch and wait
    eternally in the shadows.



    This is from one of the HoME books, though I can't recall which. Perhaps Melkor has also heard this ? As we see, Turin will deal his death stroke.