Medically assisted suicide/patient induced death

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Tinuviel, Dec 10, 2003.

  1. Urambo Tauro

    Urambo Tauro Art House Member

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    Wow. That's a really good point, Eowyn.
     
  2. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    Eowyn, do your views stem from a religious background or from purely personal views?

    I believe there are many worse things than death. I believe that to be alive is a truly wonderful amazing thing, it's a fantastic adventure that is a real gift meant to be enjoyed.
    However, losing your life to me is not the "low point" of life. Obviously it's the end of it (or at least one stage of it, depending on your beliefs), but to me there's a world of difference between being alive in the medical sense, and truly living your life.

    If a day comes when my body is racked with pain from cancer, and my body is no longer mine to control, and where my every waking moment brings unbearable pain, and my family has to see me deteriorate in front of their eyes, causing pain and suffering and heartbreak for everyone concerned, then who the hell are you to tell me "Just put up with it and stop complaining."? Will you feel good about yourself, that I feel so bad and have no way out?

    I would much rather be able to peacefully fall into the Big Sleep with my friends and family around me, knowing that I've prepared myself for the end of my time on this world and have said my goodbyes to my loved ones, and thanking them for the part they played in my life. I don't want to have to gas myself in my car or overdose on my pain medication that doesn't work anyway.

    I can understand why some people want to cling to the last few moments of their life, because it is a precious thing. For those that choose it, palliative care can certainly do a lot of good. But for the most part, I have lived my life the way I have wanted to live it, and I'd like it to end that way too.
     
  3. Elvenblademaster

    Elvenblademaster New Member

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    Me too!
     
  4. Skyanide

    Skyanide The Big Meanie Staff Member

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    I'm all for fighting a terminal illness with all the emotional, mental and physical fortitude that one can muster.

    But to force someone to live in pain without any hope when all they want is peace is the epitome of selfishness.
     
  5. Elvenblademaster

    Elvenblademaster New Member

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    I think so too. It would really depend on the cercumstance if they are a vegitable and would want the machine turned off, Then yes I think so. But recently my uncle commited suicide because he was diagnosed with throat cancer, and he shot himself. I loved my uncle very much, and the first thing that comes to me is that I think he took the cowards way out, he didn't fight, didn't even say goodbye to his wife. But he knew what the treatment would be and he didn't want to go through it. I still think suicide is cowardly though.
     
  6. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    I guess you haven't seen the pain and suffering from up close. It is not like cutting your finger, not like breaking a leg. It is MUCH worse. Imagin endless pain, consuming your every thought, vomiting every day, everything you eat comes out the wrong way. Slowly decaying, deteriorating day to day, ending eventually in death. It is battle you cannot win; struggle and torture, without the option of giving up. Believe me, even you would be happy that your final day would come sooner than later. Longing for the one day the pain stops. And yes, it helps that you can deside that enough is enough and get the Ultimate Shot. In these pains and misary you would rather die tomorow than in a month. The knowledge to have the ultimate abort-button can help at least against depression coupled to the hopeless struggle.

    If living becomes inhumane what is more humane than death?
     
  7. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    It doesn't. It is merely the knowledge to be able to die when life becomes too much of a burden. It is like the big rollercoaster of death, not being able to see the end by a long shot. With euthanesia you have the possibility to get out whenever it becomes too worse to handle. That is comforting to a lot of people. That is what I meant with "elevating"
     
  8. AcrobaticHippo

    AcrobaticHippo Determined

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    Well,I think that it all depends on the patient's family.If they really think that the patient will recover from the coma(if s/he's not brain dead) or they can't bear to let go of her,then they have the right to request that she comtinue using the life support machine.However,if they thing that the patient is suffering from great pain,then they can let her go.

    However,personally,I think that the patient should have a medically induced death if s/he is "brain dead" or in any other irreversible state.When someone who are in an irreversible coma are hooked onto life support machines,they're worse than dead.

    Eowyn,you talk about religious views.Don't you think it'll be more peaceful for the soul of the patient if it is free from the misery of being in an irreversible coma/vegetable state?
     
  9. Jessehk

    Jessehk The introverted

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    one again, I agree with Sky here.

    If the patient has tried all else, and is suffering with no hope of recovery, and, is sane, and has thought about it (if their mind/body can think) then yes, I think that they should be able to end their own life to end their suffering.

    BTW, sry about your Mom, Turamburer.
     
  10. BlackWolfRising

    BlackWolfRising New Member

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    Anyone has a choice in life or death but it's the people in their life that has the true control overit. I agree if a person has tried everything, has been going trough endless pain and has lost all hope then let them, overwise they will find another way, another way which will hurt the around them even more...
     
  11. Bard

    Bard Erchamion

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    Damn, this thread is 4 years old!

    I agree that people should be able to choose if they can indeed think for themselves and are in a state of continuous pain.
     
  12. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    http://www.news.com.au/national/eld...uthanasia-debate/story-e6frfkvr-1226048958878

    Suicide is illegal in Australia, and assisting someone to die is also a crime.

    This elderly couple left behind a video explaining their reasoning. I hope to see medically assisted suicide become legal in my lifetime in Australia. There must be checks and safeguards of course, but I believe this will and must happen. I imagine it will first be introduced in an extremely tightly regulated way, with a checklist of qualifying factors as long as your arm. But it will happen.
     
  13. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    Interesting point, and one that the elderly couple in the video above made. Knowing they had the drug available to them, to use whenever they chose, was actually liberating to them. To have that freedom and knowledge was reassuring, rather than uncertainty.
     
  14. Delarmgo

    Delarmgo Dark Heart Of The Verse

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    I lost my grandmother around this time last year due to cancer. It attacked her jaw bone (bone cancer) and later found its way to her cheeks, eating its way through. When she finally passed away, her right cheek was gone and she was reduced to a skeleton because the hole in her face was too big for her to eat anything, and the serum the doctors gave her was not sufficient to at least give her a sense of fulfillment, a sense of not being hungry. She was dying this horrible, agonizing death for six months, always in excruciating pain, always needing help with about every little thing that we take for granted (she was a very proud and strong woman, whose death filled a church of almost 800 weeping people at her funeral) and all that time she had the same clarity and wit and smarts she had all her life. She knew she was dying and she knew it would be extremely painful and yet she never once asked anyone to help her die. I don't know if i would have done the same in her shoes. I don't know if i'd be strong enough. But had she asked for someone to help her die, i would be glad to help her find release from that torture. No one should die a death like hers.

    So yeah, i'm pro euthanasia. No one in their right minds would let a person suffer all this pain because of religious or ethic or legal or whatever reasons. It'd be too cruel to do otherwise.
     
  15. Dynan

    Dynan New Member

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    I absolutely think it is within an individual's right to end his or her life. I think that certain procedures should be employed when dealing with minors and psychologically impaired patients; but also that these precautions shouldn't be impossible mazes through which suffering patients or their loved ones must navigate. In the case of terminally ill minors, I think the patient should still be consulted before they are at the point in which they are actively suffering (as for whether the parents can or cannot allow their child's decision to be the final one, I believe there should be an educated objective intermediary present to provide perspective). For those patients who are mentally unstable, I think the decision should be made after at least three professional opinions are reviewed, the patient's own doctor has reviewed and approved the death under the circumstances, and, of course after the patient has spoken with their doctor. If the patient is not in a state to lucidly communicate, euthanasia should not be considered a viable option.

    A person's life is their own. It is the singularly most precious and sacred thing we can truthfully say we are in unconditional control of. To take that control away from a person is nearly as bad as putting a gun to their head.
     
  16. Aphelion

    Aphelion The Mighty One

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    I believe that each person is a master of his own life, ultimately, he is the only one who actually chooses what to do and what not. Even a suicide (but I don't really approve suicides, I think people should confront their problems rather than just give up, but that's another subject), so when terminally ill, if a person decides that he wants to die (only if he is sober and psychologically alright), then I suppose that if he can't do it himself, then the right people with the right skills should aid. There are many speculations about it that its like murder or something, but if the suffering is real, and the date is already set, and there is no available way to cure or make the person better then if it is his final will then I believe it is ok to do it. However, there might be a case where there is no cure at the moment and the person wants to die, but if you let him die now and a cure or treatment will be invented in a week or so then it's a tricky situation, ofc no one can know that but still.. bummer..
     
  17. Tabris

    Tabris 11.11.11

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    I support medically assisted suicide. It is undoubtedly a difficult issue, that should be strongly regulated. But as someone else also mentioned earlier in this thread, I view the act of forcing someone to suffer horrendous pain and loss of dignity and quality of life, without allowing them to end it when there is nothing else you can do, an act of evil. No one but the sick person him/herself can know what's best for him/her to do in such a situation.
     
  18. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Most typical suicides are not always linked to an actual desire for death, but more an actual desire for resolution to the problems that the person is experiencing and the result of the fact that they can't quite face them. Suicide is thus often an extreme form of seeking attention to ones self whilst at the same time still distracting people from the big problem(s) in that persons current life.

    True, however many people in great pain or suffering from great mental problems are rendered no longer fit to make choices on their own wellbeing (such as with something like alzhimers). This is actually something that then needs to be dealt with in the persons Will - however death and preparation for it is something that we just don't really do today (escpecially in modern society which I feel has a rather blind eye toward the whole concept of growing old and passing on)

    Yes this is always going to be the case - however we must remember that whilst we can always plan and hope for tomorrow - we've still got to get through today. And for the person suffering pain (physical and mental) can well make time pass infinatly slowly as they suffer.
    If the wonder cure appears the day after then yes you'll kick yourself for a day, but in the end you know that you still made the right choice on the day that mattered.
     
  19. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    I simply do not believe that enforced suffering benefits anyone, at all, in any way.

    The patient is in constant agony with no hope of recovery.
    Their partner has to nurse them and watch their best friend in constant agony.
    Their children, friends and family have to watch their beloved person suffer and wither away.
    These same families are the ones who are forced to discover the bodies of those who have taken their own lives, rather than being there to say goodbye.

    So tell me - who benefits from telling the patient "No, you must endure this torture?"

    It will come in. One day. It will be 18+ only, with multiple medical cecks/interviews/assessments required, then probably a waiting period. But one way or another, it will be introduced, because the majority of the populace wants it. We the younger generations are watching our parents and grandparents die in agony, with no legal options available to them. And if we dare help them, out of love and compassion, we will get sent to jail.

    Sadly, the will of the majority is regularly delayed for years by the vocal minority of religious leaders, even in Australia which is not anywhere near as religious as say America.
     
  20. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    There was a documentary recently on BBC actually concerning this. You saw how a man, not terminally ill, consciously took the poison to die. He sat next to his wife when he did. It's actually a long process, but it's understandable why people choose to do it. So I think it's personally wrong to call it 'assisted' suicide. Suicide puts such a dark stain over it. But I can understand considering that you are killing yourself, or what I prefer to say is, allow yourself to die. I'm sure there are others who saw this documentary, so I'm curious what they were thinking when they saw it. If you haven't seen it you can find it on youtube. Terry Prachett Choosing to die. That's the words you use to find it.
     
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