Meat-Free diets could end world hunger

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Crouton, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. Greybeard

    Greybeard Geezer

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  2. Dreamscaper

    Dreamscaper Royal Hamster Wrangler

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    The same goes for plants. Plants are living creatures the same as animals, plants murder each other by suffocating or starving one another and feed on the decaying carcasses of other creatures... I have a garden, I have to guard my chosen plants by ripping out the ones I don't want (stupid weeds *grumblegrumble*) it is just life. BTW, eating fruit is eating the flesh of another creature's womb. Happy thought for the day, :p
     
  3. Sirius Orion

    Sirius Orion New Member

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    Yes, fruit is the flesh of another creature's womb, but it is the GIFT of that creature to the others. The creature itself continues on to give more gifts...

    And as far as plants "murdering" other plants (I also garden), this all applies to the Land of Mortals, where death is the Norm---death does not exist in the land of the faerie...should any of us choose to re-enter the magic portal back to Faerie Land, all cruelty would be forgotten and non-existent :cool:
     
  4. Sirius Orion

    Sirius Orion New Member

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  5. Dreamscaper

    Dreamscaper Royal Hamster Wrangler

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    I don't think they all like you eating their babies, lol. Some do, masochistic plants. :p
     
  6. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

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    I guess we will just have to be more meticulous and careful coordinating our resources. It is tricky to get the masses to aim for the same goal with stuff like this though, like the US is starting to get grounded with better standards of environment pollution, but then you have China going nuts with pollution.

    Animals eat other animals, people eat other animals. It isn't unnatural to eat meat. It is unnatural to fry bacon wrapped around a hot dog though. If push comes to shove even I'd willingly let myself be eaten in a stranded scenario, and if I were a lonely wizard in a cave I'd probably eat goblin meat if I had to.

    Saying that karma applies to what you eat is a matter of faith, though. If it floats your boat, fine, but pushing it on others is a bit much even if they are frying turducken sprinkled with bacon marinated in pigs blood like hogs themselves. I say it is better to find common ground and have disdain for that kind of unhealthy eating.
     
  7. Dreamscaper

    Dreamscaper Royal Hamster Wrangler

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    True, but we don't really have a leg to stand on telling other people to do something that we don't do ourselves. We just need a step in the right direction right now. I do agree that it would be a good thing to be able to colonize other planets and leave this one for nature, but I don't feel its a realistic goal as it stands.

    Unfortunately, nature doesn't care for the idea of karma. What nature cares for is strength. The strong live and kill, the weak are prey and die. Simple. It's why we have war, its in our genetic code to make your tribe strong even when it's expanded into a massive nation, at the base there is no morals or fancy abstract ideas like human rights, there is strength and/or the illusion of strength alone. There are the victors, the strong nations like England or the United States, there are the weak nations that have been dominated like the Native American tribes, the Celts in the time of Julius Caesar and much of Africa, and there are the dead like Carthage or the Britons.

    I know you disagree with this Lord Yuan but this is still how I see it.
     
  8. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

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    No, that is how I see nature also. Kind of brutal and relentless. But comparing it to the idea that Sirius had I'm saying that even if like saying that eating meat bares some spiritual stigma isn't factual. And like you said the strong often get the better end of things.

    And as far as colonization stuff goes, I still stand by what I said, we will probably never see the results of any work toward that kind of stuff, but by planning it out now and running through ideas we safe the people of the distant future the trouble if they ever get the opportunity. And extended long term plan, but where we are at now I say we should be game for nearly every solution.
     
  9. Sirius Orion

    Sirius Orion New Member

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    The Bible can be referred to as a piece of fantasy literature, for the sake of this argument, so I will reference it; in Genesis chapter 1, the story goes that God gave all herb (vegetarian) for man to eat, AND also for ANIMALS to eat as well. According to this legend then, all living creatures ate only a vegetarian diet. And we can see some validity to this in the fact that some of the largest animals are herbivores, like elephants and giraffes and bears for instance.

    There are numerous pieces of ancient literature, in the form of myths, stories, etcetera, that point to a time far in the distant past where no creature consumed flesh. The current 'animal' state of 'nature' as a barbaric "kill or be killed" survival of the fittest competition is not the original state of existence that we evolved from.

    There are ancient writings that speak of human life before the moon, there are legends like Atlantis, there are things like the Pyramids that are far advanced yet came before us, that indicate that human levels of intelligence fluctuate throughout periods of time from extreme highs to extreme lows and vice-versa.

    There are many writings that point to an event, initiated and perpetrated by humans, that created a chain of events that changed the entire ecosystem from one where we all had a plant based diet and lived in harmonius balance with all life, to the degenerative carnivorous predatory mind state we now share with many animals.

    It has been said in certain lore that it was we who turned on the animals first, it was we who taught them to eat meat and distrust us. Animals are quite intelligent, and human intelligence affects animal intelligence, as all intelligence is interconnected...

    Just because we may have forgotten how we got to this point of being predators and carnivores, does not mean that that is what we and nature have always been...things change, sometimes for the better,and sometimes for the worse.

    But we humans are the creators of the environment that we inhabit, and our actions generate an equal and opposite reaction from our environment, period, if you would rather reference the hard physics of science, instead of the soft spirituality of karma, it is still fact that energy travels in a circle :ufo:
     
  10. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

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    You can't go to court and submit lore or faith as evidence though. And the equal and opposite reaction thing applies to physical motion not the dynamics of human and nature interaction.

    Intelligence isn't connected, people don't even have a good method to judge intelligence. Also if you were comparing species you would probably have to use different scales. I don't care how wise you think a dolphin is if it can survive well, it won't ever find a way to cure dolphin diseases or build and use tools.
     
  11. Dreamscaper

    Dreamscaper Royal Hamster Wrangler

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    I'm mildly confused: if you view it as a piece of fantasy literature, why are you quoting it in a debate? I know its the fantasy forum but still.

    Yes, I'm witholding punches, don't start with me on this, chances are having studied theology and history with historical research methods means I have a major problem with it being considered a work of fantasy, when it clearly is not to anybody who studies humanities, even from an atheistic point of view.
     
  12. Sirius Orion

    Sirius Orion New Member

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    I do not personally view the Bible as a piece of fantasy one bit.

    This conversation is weaving between both fantasy and reality, which is a very thin line.

    I made that statement in the context of the fact that not all people, including atheists, believe everything in the Bible is literal. But whether or not you believe in the Bible, it is a wonderful piece of literature and collection of writings that can be used as a reference to make a point, for arguments sake....
     
  13. MattII

    MattII Member

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    Okay, gonna come out and say it. Eating meat isn't causing world hunger, godawful management on the part of the government of those countries with lots of starving people is what's causing world hunger. I mean, look at Zimbabwe, used to be a massive net exporter of grain, but now it's an importer, and that's all down to government mismanagement.
     
  14. RayCaptain

    RayCaptain 如朱

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    But then I wouldn't be able to enjoy flame-charred baby animal flesh :oops: