Meat-Free diets could end world hunger

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Crouton, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    This is very rich, coming from someone who is ignoring the clear and researched facts just so they can satisfy their tastebuds every day and not feel guilty over it. Very rich indeed. If you were open to actual facts then you would see that what I am saying is the truth.
     
  2. JNK

    JNK King of tards

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    look, kid... do you, e.g. what are major causes for breast cancer? eat meat or eat hay, and you'll get it, anyway, 'cause it has nothing to do with meat... But of course you know better, than someone who worked on this stuff for 16 years... Anyway, I already know that arguing with you is more or less arguing with a kid, who doesn't yet want to go to bed... arguments are usually as good, so YEAH YOU RIGHT AGAIN, whatever...
     
  3. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    I would like you to do me a favour. Clearly you know better and will not listen to me. But I dare you to watch this video. This entire video and still believe that a meat heavy diet is the best possible choice for mankind. If you can watch the whole video and still think that then fine. It's a truce. We won't discuss it again. It's about 20 minutes long, but I highly recommend you do yourself a favour, open your mind and watch all of it.

     
  4. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

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    Trying to guilt people about eating meat is a pretty crude argument. I already am underweight and frequently skip meals, I have meat maybe every third meal I have and this could be within a week. People saying stuff like eating meat is evil and unrighteous makes me want to eat even less.

    But I've said elsewhere, I don't care about the short term. Animals suffer? So do people. Does it make sense to think we can totally end our suffering? Of course not, not within our lifetimes. Our animal brains reinforce eating meat and fatty foods for survival purposes, you shouldn't try to guilt people about something they are wired to do.

    It would be like trying to make a gay person feel guilty for their attraction, or somebody addicted to a substance feel bad that they are an addict even if they have been clean the last thirty years. We have very little control over our desires and demonizing them with noble phrases is harsh. Wait until we have devices that allow full brain control before you use guilt.
     
  5. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    I'm sorry that you have problems with weight and eating, but skipping meals is something you do on your own. I don't see how someone spreading facts about meat consumption in the world would make you want to skip meals. For most people it just makes them want to improve their diet.

    Our brains only think we need to eat meat because that's what's being taught to us from other people who came before us. It's not a natural instinct for humans to eat meat, and it certainly isn't anything we are "wired" to do considering there are whole countries in the world where the majority of their population is vegetarian from birth due to many reasons, mostly religion.

    Haha, I'm sorry but these are very different things. A gay person doesn't harm anyone by being gay. It's very different to make someone feel guilty about being gay when it doesn't do anyone or anything harm. The meat industry on the other hand is unhealthy, destroying economies, unethical and has many major worldwide problems. Two very different things.
     
  6. JNK

    JNK King of tards

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    nice speach... Gorbatchev used to do many of those ... lots of words, no meaning... sorry fanaticism never convinced me, neither communist, nor religious, now vegetarian... I'm just too damn liberal I guess...

    these several simple sentences are worth 10X more than that 23 min. video... sorry... I tried..
     
  7. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    Gorbachev was actually hardly communist at all and single-handedly ended the cold war.
     
  8. JNK

    JNK King of tards

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    give me a break... dude I lived there, OK...
     
  9. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    You should know then that Gorbachev was actually a pretty good guy overall.
     
  10. JNK

    JNK King of tards

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    nope read about January 13th, 1991, Vilnius... ok..
     
  11. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

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    Because they do it with some kind of fervor and try to guilt trip people for having sensory systems.

    Fatty foods and sugars usually taste better for people because they have carbohydrates needed to survive. Our bodies haven't evolved to accommodate our ability to collect resources. I'm not talking about cultures or taught mechanisms, I'm only going off of inbuilt systems. You can't blame people for being human.

    I'm sorry that my sparring use of meat is unethical, destroys economies, is the source of many worldwide problems then. Most human flaws are inbuilt and natural. We aren't some malicious force destroying nature, we are also nature, the byproduct of it. There is no ethical and unethical, we were made to hunger, we were made to consume. We probably can't uphold this forever and you are right about that, people should adopt different methods, but manipulating people with guilt is not one of those methods.

    Emotions are something nearly impossible to control too, triggering certain ones to benefit a cause is too manipulatory. I'm mostly for your cause, but not if you want to guilt trip people for it.
     
  12. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    This is hard to watch. I don't see why everyone is getting so sore about this. Let's just agree that humans are going to continue to eat meat but eating less would be healthier and that there are plenty of ways to make the industry better for the animals.
     
  13. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    Sensory systems don't make us eat meat, nor do our bodies need it.

    You can still eat sugars and fatty foods as a vegetarian. Nothing really changes except less of a negative impact your diet has on your body.

    We aren't a malicious force? If any other species on the planet created the amount of destruction that our species did they would be called a curse, a virus and probably be wiped out for our own good. But when it's us we keep trying to make excuses. I'm not trying to guilt trip people. I know that there are plenty of people out there who just don't care enough about animals, the environment, the planet to do anything. They only care about themselves. I'm merely trying to provide information, something that I wish somebody did for me a lot earlier in my life. Spreading knowledge and understanding is different to guilt tripping. What each person chooses to do with the knowledge is up to them, not me. Hell, most people probably already know all the things I'm saying but they choose to do nothing because they don't care. It's their decision.
     
  14. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

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    While Jnk may be on more of a meaty side of the spectrum you still insinuated he should feel guilty.



    People don't eat out of malice or to destroy, we do it because our brains reward it, that is why we do anything. Even animals eat other animals, like I said our technology and skills to sustain ourselves have become indulgent, but we shouldn't be persecuted for playing the game of life. I'm sick of people saying that humans are evil and only exist to destroy nature, when most of our tendencies to do so were instilled in us by nature. To seek security and be healthy. Our brains are intentionally selfish.

    I agree this is not such a good thing, but we shouldn't demonize something that is mostly out of our control for the time being and append it to pure selfishness and evil, because good and evil, to me are just excuses for something more complex.
     
  15. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    I only said that to jnk because he angered me with this comment...

    "no they're not... but you wouldn't even listen or read anything which proves otherwise..."

    I saw that as rude and offensive towards me. I wasn't angry at him because he ate meat, I was upset at that particular comment.

    Yes, animals eat other animals, but other animals don't have factory farms and the intense issues we do when it comes to meat. They understand their place in life and live with nature, not in spite of it. They don't challenge it and destroy it and make it work for them and around them like we do. It's two very different scenarios.

    There's a difference between someone being evil intentionally and someone doing evil things without knowing. I believe that most of the world is good, but many people don't know how adversely their actions are effecting everything else. It's not their fault so to speak, which is why education and understanding is so important. Hence the facts I put in this thread. It's about being open-minded and accepting the truth, even if it's an ugly truth.
     
  16. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    PEOPLE - lets take a moment to pause and relax a little. The argument is getting a little heated and there is no need for that at all. Reign in your emotions and focus your arguments on the debate of presented facts and lets leave out the cheap shots at each other.



    Note - those presenting facts might well find that the reception of the facts will be taken better with the presentation of the sources of those facts.
     
  17. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    meat <3 ftw!
     
  18. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

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    Evil isn't intentional, the person who does it does it for the good of their own sake. People hoard money from factory farming for their own security and the security of their families.

    I agree with spreading the tough truth, but it is important to remember we all take a biased stance from where good and evil are to us. Even if Jnk says something harsh retaliating bluntly won't win him over in a debate too.

    I like to see animal over consumption not as a problem to put blame on, but a problem that exists that requires a long term difficult process if it has to be fixed permanently. There are tons of systems in place that justifiably cause nature to destroy itself from many different angles, it is the hardest challenge to come up with a end all be all resolution that will stand the test of time and preserve the result enough to last the test of time.

    I was kind of serious when I said brain control enabling devices, we may have to knowingly alter our brain's interpretation of senses to fight part of the natural desire concept of it. Cutting portions, pushing laws that punish factory farming, there are so many different motivations that come into play, you could be part of the good fight from nearly anywhere you stand, but nobody has to be the genesis of evil or corruption.

    Bah, don't misinterpret it OR. They aren't cheap shots as much as trying to feel out what the other side is getting at so far, emotions are also inevitably going to be riled on the debate forum, anybody that cares enough to post on an internet forum about a topic probably has some passion to it. I think most of the wiliness is dissipated anyway.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2012
  19. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

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    That's interesting, I felt like the argument did get heated, but had just managed to come back on track to a level-headed discussion when you posted this.

    I can do sources if that's what people want. It could take me a while though, I'd like to provide several sources for each fact which could take a couple more days research. I'm not sure I really have the time for that.
     
  20. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    The thing is without fact and figures or at least without references a debate ends up one of a battle of language, opinion and, in the end, ego. The presentation of facts gives a guiding source of information, that in itself can form a frame of internal debate as to the validity of those facts and then again in the validity of the assessment and interpretation of them.

    It is hard, in a debate founded on facts and figures, to debate and expect to change the opinions of others without the presentation of fact instead of that of opinion. The internet increases this requirement vastly since there is no presence of body language or of the person save for words, which are impartial and thus vastly less likely to change the opinions of others.