Macedonia...there's only one

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Foinikas, Nov 9, 2007.

  1. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    I'm starting this thread as a protest to the false and outrageous claims of the Skopjans who for about 15 years now do their best to steal the history,heroes and names of the ancient Greek Macedonia.

    These people have nothing to do with us,they have no right to call their country Macedonia or claim that they are of Macedonian blood.

    These people are Slavs of the former Yugoslavia.The area that now they live in used to be called Bardarska.Then a few years before the total destruction of Yugoslavia they started calling the area "Macedonia".When Skopje became an independent country the Skopjans were looking for an identity,for a glorious past to make their country look good while it was just a small state with Slavs and Albanians in its majority.

    So they created this myth of being Macedonians.The Greek governments unfortunately since the 90s did very little against them.In some cases not only we didn't put enough pressure to them but we also helped them economically and even gave them 10 Leonidas IFV for their army!

    Although in the past Skopjan figures like Kiro Gligorov(former prime minister of Skopje)and other politicians and important people had stated that indeed they are Slavs and have nothing to do with Macedonia,in that State an enormous propaganda war had started claiming that Greeks were lying,starting enormous brain-washing in their schools,making websites to inform the people of the "truth" and making protests in various countries like USA,Canada,Australia etc.

    They had even printed banknotes with the White Tower of Thessaloniki.In their army songs they talk about "freeing" the rest of Macedonia and taking "back" Solun(Thessaloniki).

    In their flag they put a cheap immitation of the Star of Vergina the symbol of the Macedonian dynasties,they named their airport Alexander the Great and they print maps of a big "Macedonia".

    They seem to ignore the fact that:

    1.In their country there is only about 20% of the ancient Macedonian kingdom without even very important cities.
    2.Ancient Macedonians had Greek names.
    3.Ancient Macedonians spoke and wrote in Greek.
    4.Ancient Macedonians believed in the Dodekatheon.
    5.Ancient Macedonians had greek blood and looked like Greeks(while the Skopjans look like Slavs).
    6.Phillip II and his son Alexander the Great wanted to unite and united all of Greece(or at least almost all of Greece).
    7.Alexander the Great spread the Greek civilization throughout his vast empire.
    8.One of the many ancient Greek philosophers who talked about Macedonia being Greek was Stravon who said the famous phrase "Εστι μεν ουν Ελλας και η Μακεδονια" which means Macedonia is also Greece(or Macedonia is Greek as well).


    So if we say that Macedonians were not Greek but another race then we have to say that Spartans were not Greek either,Atheneans were not Greek either and Corinthians were not Greek either.

    Unfortunately the powerful nations of the world like USA,Russia and other countries have recognized Skopje or FYROM as Macedonia.You can't blame them because they want to have influence in the area supporting small states like Skopje.

    But next time you see a website or you hear about Macedonia,remember that there's only one and that's in Greece.Slavs with an Albanian minority in a country called FYROM have nothing to do with Macedonia and they have no right at all to call themselves that.

    It's as if the British claim that Samurai were English,that Tokyo was an ancient Scottish town and call Okinawa big Wales.Or as if Germans claim that Gengis Khan was their hero and Mongolia was an ancient German province.That much logic it makes.
     
  2. Blackness

    Blackness Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you on almost all what you said.
    However, you have to take into consideration that Macedonians existed since Slavs came to this part of Europe, and the tribe which came to be today's Macedonians were trampled by stronger ones starting with Thracyan-Illyrian kingdom (Byzantine Empire, the Ottoman empire,then the first Bulgarian Empire and so on to SHS), and they didn't have an exclusive national identity until Broz Tito of Yugoslavia gave it to them.

    So, you see they never really had sovereignity until 1990, when they became the F.Y.R. Macedonia...
    I can understand why they wanted to take the ancient Macedonian name, because they need a sort of patriotism that would make people want to be together, and love for their nationto be together in case Serbia attacked them in 1990...
    Or maybe they just wanted to steal the credit lol ;)

    Anyway, as long as they have F.Y.R. in the name , but i can see why you can get agitated.
    F.Y.R. means they have nothing incommon with ancient Macedonia...
    Also, i can understand how you feel... here some people, like Marco Polo, tried to be stolen by Italy, and he was born on a croatian island, and his mother and father were boh Croatians...
    Oh well.
     
  3. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Yes it's really frustrating.Once I heard that the Turks claimed that Homer was a Turk because he was from Asia Minor.What the heck?

    I personally don't want them to be called Macedonians or have "Macedonia" in their country's name.Those people really have nothing to do with us so they can't say that they are Macedonians.
     
  4. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    I sometimes despair at your rampant nationalism Foin. Every thread you post seems to be about how great Greece or the Greek Orthodox church is and how terrible someone else is for doing/saying/thinking something that you dislike/feel is negative toward it.

    It's a country. You didn't choose it. You're not somehow blessed and better than everyone else for being born in it. Places with excessive national pride tend to do terrible things to other places.

    And I apologise for being insulting and spamming but I'm fairly sure a few others are with me.
     
  5. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Others can talk about their countries as well,nobody forbids them to do that.Don't many threads for example revolve around USA?

    My patriotism or "rampant nationalism" hasn't hurt anyone.And yes I was born to this country,by Greek parents and that's the country I'm gonna support and love first and foremost,what's wrong with that?

    The issue that we have with Skopje is a very important national issue that we have and I thought I should inform you about that and clear some things up in case some of you are confused with what Macedonia exactly is.

    How about you make a thread about your country Unraveller and tell us about your national issues with other countries and explain.Did anyone tell you not to do it?

    Do you have anything to say on this subject here on this thread?
     
  6. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    And for those who are still confused and want proof here is a huge list of quotes that prove that Macedonia is part of Greece and that F.Y.R.O.M. has nothing to do with Macedonia.

    Here you can find quotes of ancient historians,geographers,philosophers etc. and also modern historians,archeologists,diplomats,poets and of course politicians even Skopjan politicians like Kiro Gligorov(First President of F.Y.R.O.M.)and others who admit that their nation has totally nothing to do with Macedonia.

    All the proof you'll ever need is there.

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Macedonia
     
  7. Count Driloz

    Count Driloz Illyrian Witchking

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    @Foinikas

    In some aspects I agree with you that of course Slavic people came after .
    But real Macedonians were Thracks they fought against Greece and Illyria. There was a mixture of course as the Alexander the Great who was mixed with Illyrian blood. I do no see it neccesary now to post the historical facts or dates because you already posted a website about that above.
     
  8. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    In the link that I gave you if you check all these innumerable quotes from various sources that date from ancient times up to now you'll see that what you say too does not "stand",is not logical and is that Macedonians were a greek tribe,not Thracians and definetely not Illyrians.

    Edit:i was referring to what you said about Alexander the Great having Illyrian blood.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2007
  9. Count Driloz

    Count Driloz Illyrian Witchking

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    Well I thought that you are aware of this since you provided the links but as I said in the previous post, Macedonians are not Greek there were relations that after as language but to be more punctual I will provide the facts also taken from the same site:

    They are two theories from the historian but both again come to the same conclusion which I will explain to you below:

    This is the one that supports that Macedonians are a Greek tribe:
    The Ancient Macedonians (Greek: Μακεδόνες, Makedónes) were the inhabitants of Macedon in ancient times. Historians generally agree that the ancient Macedonians, whether they originally spoke a Greek dialect or a distinct language, belonged to the Koine Greek speaking population in Hellenistic times. Whether the ancient Macedonians were an ethnically Greek people themselves continues to be debated by historians, linguists, and lay people. However, the Macedonian Royal family known as the Argead dynasty claimed Greek descent, and Macedonians were admitted to the Olympic games, an athletic event that only people of Greek origin were allowed to participate. After the 4th century BCE, the ancient Macedonians were universally considered to be Greek by their contemporaries.

    And the other one that contradicts this :

    Rather than a Greek origin, some scholars argue that the ancient Macedonians had an Illyrian or Thracian origin. William M. Ramsey considered the Macedonians as a tribe of Thrace, the land north-east of Greece, akin to the Thracians. One such scholar is Professor George Rawlinson, who stated that the Macedonians were a distinct race, not Paeonian, Illyrian or Thracian, but of the three. According to him their connection was closest with the Illyrians. It is also possible that the ancient Macedonians underwent ethnogenesis syncretizing Greek as well as Illyrian, and Thracian elements (cf. Borza, et al.)
    If you check any site possible you will see in the prelude that Macedonian origin is suspicious.

    Another very strong fact is the language used:

    The Ancient Macedonian language was the tongue of the Ancient Macedonians. It was spoken in Macedon during the 1st millennium BC. Marginalized from the 5th century BC, it was gradually replaced by the common Greek dialect of the Hellenistic Era. It was probably spoken predominantly in the inland regions away from the coast. It is as yet undetermined whether the language was a dialect of Greek, a sibling language to Greek, or an Indo-European language which is a close cousin to Greek and also related to Thracian and Phrygian languages.

    Which means that their language was more related to Thracian and Illyrian than Greek, the replacement took place afterwards just as the later with Latin.

    Also do not forget one fact that Greece culture impacted all the region just like english nowdays.

    In that period contacts between the Thracians and Classical Greece intensified which led to strengthening Greek influences in Thracian society, culture and handcrafts. Because their language had no written tradition, in some regions the Thracian aristocracy and administration adopted Classical Greek for an official language and Thracian merchants utilised it as a 'lingua franca' in their contacts with other tribes and peoples.

    Regarding Alexander the Great I think this explains everything its just the waste of time if argue more.

    Philip had married Audata, great-granddaughter of the Illyrian king of Dardania, Bardyllis. However, this did not prevent him from marching against them in 358 and crushing them in a ferocious battle in which some 7,000 Illyrians died (357). By this move, Philip established his authority inland as far as Lake Ohrid.
    PS. All the facts taken Wikipedia
     
  10. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Again you can find all these answers and proof that Macedonians were Greek in that link I gave you.And by the way Alexander's mother was Olympiada.

    Such was the end of Philip (II, king of Macedonia) ...He had ruled 24 years. He is known to fame as one who with but the slenderest resources to support his claim to a throne won for himself the greatest empire among the Hellenes (Greeks), while the growth of his position was not due so much to his prowess in arms as to his adroitness and cordiality in diplomacy.
    Diodorus Siculus, "Histories", 16.95.1-2


    Your ancestors came to Macedonia and the rest of Hellas and did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury. I have been appointed leader of the Greeks, and wanting to punish the Persians I have come to Asia, which I took from you... Alexander's letter to Persian king Darius in response to a truce plea. Arrian, "Anabasis Alexandri", II, 14, 4


    Tell your king (Xerxes), who sent you, how his Greek viceroy (Alexander I) of Macedonia has received you hospitably.
    Herodotus, "Histories", 5.20.4 ,Loeb


    There's just dozens of quotes there that prove that Alexander and the Macedonians had nothing to do with Thracians or Illyrians.Albanians would sure love to claim that Alexander was Illyrian just as much as Skopjans,I know but that history proves different things,it proves that indeed Macedonia had always been a greek kingdom just like Sparta,Athens,Corinth etc.were greek city-states.
     
  11. Count Driloz

    Count Driloz Illyrian Witchking

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    Try to be more neutral, I mentioned at the begining that this theory also consists but do not forget again that at that time Greece was a superpower it was the language used for all Europe, this is a fact I have to admit it. They also had best writers and of course it is understandable that historians as Diodorus Siculus have taken the Greek side.

    Now I will provide an article that has sufficent explanation about this, initially I wanted to base only in wikipedia because its simplifies issues more.
    Also you can reffer to the web. www.macedonia.com


    ORIGIN OF THE MACEDONIANS

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    INTRODUCTION
    Many writers investigated the origin of the Macedonians in their own way and have, as a result, arrived at different conclusions, often in conflict with one another.' This subject is of vital significance to us, Macedonians, for we want to know whether or not our ancestors were Greek. Much more so, because aligned with it, is another question of equal importance, namely, whether Greece has any inheritance rights upon Macedonia, or whether, in the absence of such historical or ethnological rights, Macedonia can be considered a property without an owner where anybody can stake his claim.
    The Greek origin of the Macedonians or rather the homogeneity of the Greeks and the Macedonians are proven by the history of the settlement of the Indo- Europeans in Europe, particularly the South Group, i. e. the Thracians, the Greeks and the Illyrians, in the Balkan Peninsula.


    THE FIRST SETTLERS
    The Thracians, having arrived first, occupied the eastern part of the peninsula and Macedonia. The Greeks probably came after the Thracians, about 2500 B. C., making their way through the valleys of Axios, the Morava (Margos) and the mountainous passes of Illyria. They stopped at the Western part of the Balkan pleninsula and Macedonia, which was seized from the Thracians. This land has been their station and was Arian-Greek for many centuries before Southern Greece became Greek. Further movements to the south were obstructed by the chain of the Kambounian mountains and Olympus. It was then that they built in Amphaxitis' and further south, the cities of Eidomene, Europus, Atalante, Gortynia, Ichnae, Dion.

    About five centuries later the Thracians regained Central Macedonia as a result of which some Greek tribes, such as the Ionians and Achaeans occupying the afore- mentioned cities,, were forced to submit but retained the names of their native towns, while others moved south- ward and built new cities by the same names in various parts, especially in Arcadia, where, according to Strabo only Achaeans settled (Gortys-Gortynia, Europus, Eidomene, Atalante). Others, such as the Penestae of northern Macedonia who spoke an archaic dialect, settled in Thessaly, having left behind them the name of the old country Penestia in its original seat.

    THE APPEARANCE OF THE ILLYRIANS
    In the 13th century B. C. the Illyrians penetrated the westernmost parts of the Balkan peninsula. They occupied Penestia and the territory up to the Genousos River, as shown by the folklore, before, during and after Strabo, up to this very day. According to an ancient tradition, the town of Pylon, near lake Lychnitis (Achris or Ochrida), formed the meeting point of the boundaries of Macedonia and Illyria. This territory has also been known under the name of Dassaretia, and constituted the outermost limit of Macedonia and Epirus ("Finis Macedonia et Epiri", Itiner.Hierosol.) at least during the Greco-Roman period.' The Illyrian incursion and pressure forced out many Eordian's from the plain of the Eordian River ( (Devole) who settled in another plain near the lake of the ancient Arnissa (Ostrovo) in Western Macedonia. This territory was known thereafter as Eordia or Eordaea (in an old inscription discovered in Epidaurus another form of the name is given: Euordia) which was derived from the Eordians.


    MACEDONIANS (DORIANS) MIGRATE ALL OVER GREECE
    The latter in turn pushed out the Macedonian tribe of the Dorians (whom Kretchmer identifies with the Douriopes of Macedonia) and forced them to leave the country around the mountains of Olympus and Pindus (Herodotus, Pindar, Strabo) and settled in the land to the south of the Kambounian mountains as well as to the south of the Isthmus of Corinth. They (the Dorians) were followed by other tribes of the so-called north- western type and were scattered all over Greece, except Arcadia. From such new settlers certain localities derived and retained up to this day their historical names, i. e. Boeotia, Phocis Acarnania, Thessaly, etc. The Boeotians themselves must have come down from the western Macedonian mountain Boion, from which their name is derived. But they were not alien to the extension of the Boion mountain further south, that is Pindus, from which Pindar's name is derived.


    ESTABLISHMENT OF THE CENTRAL MACEDONIAN THRONE
    Those who remained in Macedonia settled in small villages and, divided according to areas in independent Kingdoms, were engaged in constant warfare with their neighbors, the Illyrians, whom they kept in check. Between 700-500 B. C. the dynasty of Orestis (the territory sow covered by Kastoria and Korytsa) appeared and established the central Macedonian throne in Aegae (Vergina) of Emathia after subduing the local kings of the other Macedonian territories of Pelagonia (Monastir), Lyngus (Florina), Douriopia (Krousovo-Perlepes), Elimia (Kozane- Grevena), Tymphaea (Konitsa), Eordia (Ptolemais), Pieria ( Katerini-Litochoron ) and Bottiaea (Giannitsa- Pella).
    The town of Aegae (in Central Macedonia) was the seat of the King of the entire Macledonia who ruled over the already subdued small kingdoms. These, according to Thucydides, "were allies and subjects, but also had kings of their own". That is, to put it in another way, they were federative units, having approximately the same relation with the central government as the small states of Germany had with the King of Prussia before the first World War (1914-18).


    EXPANSION OF THE KINGDOM OF MACEDONIA
    Following the repulse of the Persians, King Alexander I, occupied the entire territory between the rivers Axios and Strymon, with the exception of the coastline. Philip II, father of Alexander the Great, extended his dominion eastward to the shores of Euxine. He imposed his political influence even beyond Kaemus (the Balkan Mountains) as far as the Danube River, after having traversed all the land beyond the river Axios from the south to north as well as from east to west: that is from Scythia Minor (Dobrudja),where, according to Atheneus, he married Meda or Medope, the daughter of Kothela, King of Odessa (Varna).

    Along the coastline of the Aegean, the Propontis and the Euxinus already existed colonies founded by Greeks from Southern Greece since the 8th century B. C. But Philip founded other colonies inland of which we know only Philippi, Kabyle and Philippopolis. These were the bases for a methodical intercourse with, and hellenization of the Thracians in the interior. '4' But Philip's colonies must have been many more, for Philippopolis alone in the center of Thrace, without any other support (that is, a series of similar colonies), would not have been able to remain Greek in character together with her suburbs up to the recent exchanges of populations.'5'

    In the nearby tombs jewels of genuine Greek workmanship were discovered testifying to the presence not merely of transient merchants, but of Greek colonists as well, who penetrated and settled in the interior as an extension of the Greek colonies founded along the coastline in the 8th century B. C. and afterwards.


    DISSEMINATION OF GREEK CULTURE
    It was through the presence of such settlers that the taste and pursuit of works of classical Greek art has already been imparted in the 5th century B. C., which coincides with the beginning of coinage in the Greek colonies along the coastline. The presence of such abundant works of Greek art in the interior can not be explained only by the existence of the Greek coastal colonies. Similar colonies also existed along the coast of Dacia, but the interior did not assume a Greek character by the presence of any such Greek works in large numbers. There is, from this point of view, a similarity between northern Thrace and the peninsula of Taurus. This peninsula, however, has been almost purely Greek with Iphigenia in Tauris and Prometheus in Caucasus. All in all, the Greek nation has, at least from the time: of Philip, been the master not only of the coastline, but of the interior of Thrace as well. With the exception of the Romans and the Turks, no other Balkan people has seized the coast, but only occasionally and in such a manner as travelers are accommodated for s night in hotels.(6)


    CONSOLIDATION OF THE STATE OF MACEDONIA
    Throughout this period and until the days of the Byzantine Empire, no other people has ever invaded Macedonia to displace the Arian-Greeks. Nor have Greek colonists come from Southern Greece. Had they tried to, they would have been unable to fill up a vast land, such as Western Macedonia. Poor and thin-soiled, it was not suitable for colonization. Besides, in Southern Greece, which was cut up into city-states, no Power could have been found strong enough, to conceive the idea, and have the necessary means, in order to colonize the whole of the interior of a distant country, which would have meant the displacement of the native population. In such case it would have been necessary to determine the racial character of the population and explain its presence there, had it not been originally Greek.

    Legends, such as those about immigration of Kings and other settlers from Southern Greece to Macedonia (Temenides, Bacchiadae, Kadmeians) were invented by the Greeks precisely to explain the Greek character of the Macedonians. All this is due to the fact that the ancient Greeks could not understand this in any other way, since they did not know their own origin and the route their ancestors followed in coming into Macedonia and Greece.

    THE MACEDONIANS CLUNG TO THEIR OLD TRADITIONS
    This being the case, the inhabitants of Macedonia are descendants of the old Arian (Greek) settlers. Prehistorical data are very clear on this point. Since the dawn of history, the names of the people and the places in 'Macledonia are Greek (Karanos, Perdiccas, Amyntas, Aeropus, Alcetas, Kleitos, Emathia, Eidomene, Haliacmon, Echedorus, Dion, etc). In addition, there is a tradition that the Greek dialect of the Macedonians preserved, and rightly so, the old peculiarities of the Homeric times, retaining the nominative cases of the first declension without "s", as is the case with the Thessalian and the Boeotian dialects, such as ippota, mhtieta, nepheligereta, olympionica, etc. This very thing is also denoted by the name Ptolemaios (Homeric Ptolemos), while the southerners were saying later polemos-Polemon. It is not improper to mention here that the bodyguards of the kings of Macedonia were called "etairoi" of the King, that is, fellow-warriors and companions, as in the time of Homer.

    Thus, the Macedonian dialect was preserved in an undeveloped and archaic state, as was the case with their entire civilization, but it was Greek. It follows, therefore, that the people, too, were rude and backward, but they were Greeks, appearing as such during the time of Philip and Alexander and even later, when the light of civilization was shining on in their own land. The Greeks moved to Peloponnesus from what is called "Sterea Hellas" Central or Middle Greece. The latter, however, was not wholly evacuated as a result of this southward movement, The same holds true as to Thessaly, whose population or rather a part of it, moved to Middle Greece. Another example: Greeks from all over Greece had left their original hometowns and settled in colonies outside Greece. The latter, however, has never been evacuated altogether by its Greek inhabitants. Thus Macedonia, too, sent out her surplus population without ceasing to be a country of Greeks.'7'



    This is proven by billion of facts also in primary school we have learned about this.
     
  12. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    So all that prove and reinforce the fact that Macedonia had always been Greek,all that you posted.

    One question since I saw that you are from Pristina as you say in your profile:Do Albanians consider themselves descendants of the Illyrians or do they consider the Illyrians as a different people?And what is the connection of Albanians and Azerbaijan?
     
  13. Ravus

    Ravus New Member

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    Greece doesn't exist. its a figment of people's imaginations and if you go far enough back or forward in time greece is meaningless like all countries, races and other 'groupings'.

    thus ends the small anti-nationalism thread derailments.
     
  14. Rychos

    Rychos What's Up, Doc?

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    Discussion about who belongs to who and which ancestry is part of european tradition I fear. Usually comes with bloodshed. Which if I'm not mistaken happened in the 90s for the last time when Yugoslavic Republic fell apart and genocide and murdering began. Another nice black page to add to a growing, thick book.

    Now I get Foin's hurt pride about macedonia being part of greece, but I also understand why FYRM wants to claim that 20% of ancient macedonia to their own history. It's not like they got anything else left to fall back on. FYRM is still called FYRM officially.

    So if the FYRM's think they're Macedonian descendants and have a right to claim it and the greek think macedonian means being greek, then when you put 1 and 1 together the only logical explanation would mean that FYRM are greek as well.

    Perhaps such a close cooperation or better bonding should be discussed during a good dinner with food and wine and afterwards some Sirtaki dancing? Might actually do good to the stability to the region, stop the bickering and find a peaceful solution for both nations that can pride and benefit either.

    That's my 2 cents on it anyway. Although I don't live in the region, but I'd say it's better than anger and hatred. It's not like that solved anything for us in the past. Just brought more problems.
     
  15. Count Driloz

    Count Driloz Illyrian Witchking

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    You made me laugh now, I think you were scared to read it lol.
    And about your question very simple do you consider yourself Greek the same as you asked me. (Of course btw if you didnt get it). And with connection of Azerbajan you tell never heard for that. But if you are intrested check wiki or any other resource.

    @ Rychos
    Its true what you are saying, but as you can see Foinikas in this topic got really frustrated lol. I saw open this subject from the begining but I did not see it reasonable to reply but since he was left alone I decided to inform him for the reality.

    Foinikas Especially in the last comment is that a sort of insulting you made think about this, because I am not a racist or nazi, if it was your intention to make me feel inferior. I dont mind being from Azerbejan but I think I am Albanian :)
     
  16. Warlock Lord

    Warlock Lord I am a Fashion Statement

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    Alexander the Great was Macedonian... he was NOT greek!

    thats all i have to say!
     
  17. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    No no I didn't imply anything,it's just that I saw that there are some videos in youtube that say something about....Albanians coming from Azerbaijan or Albanian Azerbaijan or something like that and I was like "wtf?"...that's why I asked.And I've also seen some videos of some guys on youtube implying or saying that Illyrians are the ancestors of Albanians that's why I wanted to ask what Albanians think of that.
     
  18. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    First of all F.Y.R.O.M. don't have the right to call themselves Macedonians or have anything to do with Macedonia.Unless Great Britain can claim that Napoleon was British,Germany can claim that George Washington was German and Japan can claim that Bavaria was a Japanese province.

    Actually the dinners and all that stuff is that gives the Skopjans courage,because the Greek governments have been WAY too kind to them in a very suspicious and stupid way.We've even gave them 10 Leonidas APCs for their army,can you believe that?Lol!

    So since they don't understand that they have to stop stealing our history,symbols and national figures maybe some harder measures like an embargo should be seriously considered.Not to mention veto for them to get in the European Union and NATO.
     
  19. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    You're kidding right?I'm sure you are!
     
  20. Warlock Lord

    Warlock Lord I am a Fashion Statement

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    im being quite serious...

    his father Philip II was the one who glorified the 'kingdom of macedonia'

    Philip II was a Macedonian king...
     
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