London Riots

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by evadra, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    You do see the obvious flaw in your reasoning, right? ;)
     
  2. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    :)

    The point I was (poorly) making is that it's not much of a step forward to be capable of insight but be blinkered by political leaning. The best professors are neutered of their leftist opinions when industry snaps them up thankfully.

    Most of the professors I had personal experience of were pretty disappointing, and that was in one of the UK's best management faculties.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  3. Julie

    Julie Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm I thought the good colleges and universities were expensive in the UK??

    That's not how it works. The social argument is more of an indirect one. I'm not sympathetic with them, but it's just pretty silly to just bluntly condemn the actions but not really do anything about the causes, even neglecting there are causes.

    I see what you're saying, sometimes a "fresh mind" can inspire those who are educated in the subject and can think "out of the box" in a way the ones that have spent years on study on the subject, can't.
    Though I do think the opinion of those who spent years of study on a subject has more merit than the opinion of an average person. Not all of them even have a political leaning. I've heard some of mine say they've spent too much time studying both sides that they can't choose sides anymore. It's kinda what automatically happens when you learn more about a subject. Becoming more moderate and seeing merit to both sides.
     
  4. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    College education up to age 18 is generally free. University education is expensive but students from disadvantaged backgrounds can get a lot of help with both course fees and living expenses so if anything the poorest are in a better position than the majority of students coming from 'ordinary' families. No upfront fees are payable anyway and student loans only start to be repayable once you're in work on decent money.

    We'll agree to disagree. Criminal behaviour should be condemned, it's up to justice system to take into account any mitigation. Being unemployed, within a society that provides a safety net of benefits paid for by others, does not justify setting buildings on fire, attacking ordinary people or looting. I've got no issues with a full investigation of the underlying causes being held, after the police have stamped on the criminals to send a clear message that this isn't how the system of change / protest works.

    I've got more time for professors who have practical knowledge of the application of their field rather than experts of studying.... although it does depend on the subject.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  5. evadra

    evadra New Member

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    Wow I started this thread and have barely commented. Need to give it a read through. I know you all must have missed my insightful input!
     
  6. evadra

    evadra New Member

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    Wow I started this thread and have barely commented. Need to give it a read through. I know you all must have missed my insightful input!
     
  7. Anduil

    Anduil New Member

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    Every riot has to do with violance. The matter is to search the real problem that produce a riot. Usually the goverments when they realise that a riot is happening, the first reaction is to stop it by any weapon. And goverment's weapon is police. I don't see even in civilized countries the goverments to discuss the problems of people and that leads to more riots. In England's case education is really serious problem. Uk is famous for education. They got the most well - known univercities there. And i m wondering when English people riot for education where the hell this Earth is going?
    Some months before in Spain and in Greece riots were everyday problem for the goverments, but there were no politicians to speak to people why they were rioting.... When a problem is not fixxed with dialogue and acceptance from both sides( goverment - folk) problem still exists. In my country goverment send the police to beat up old people because they are rioting, but mark my words, what happended in Athens in May 2011 will happen more in Semptember.

    As for the bullies and the vandals there are always people that do damage to riots. Its human nature to break something when there is anger inside the soul. And this is the major problem, cause goverments believe that riots = vandals and destruction that lead us to riots = need to be dealt with police.
    THIS IS the big mistake that goverments do and that is the reason that problems of people and folk never sold. Cause there is misanderstanding in the word riot.

    Hope that English fellows will solve the problem of education. Cause without education people are incomplete in my opinion.
     
  8. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    The task police gets is to deal with the situation as effective as possible to minimise the damage. Strong reaction by the police might result in exacerbation. Read Machiavelli :)

    how the hell would a properly functioning democracy ignore rioting? You can be dead certain that riots signal something went wrong that lead to the riots. And, clearly, something should be tried to do about it. If at least the opposition fails to recognise the issues at hand, than please feel free to disqualify your democratic representation.

    The fact that the UK is home to three or four excellent universities doesn't mean that goes for the entire educational system. And there is something to say about public schools in Britain and the level of education they offer.

    The cause of the riots in countries stricken by the souvereign debt crisis was pretty clear. It was also clear that the riots couldn't be the main issue on the agenda.

    When talking Athens, please take the 2008 riots into account.

    There is a nice parallel between rioters being called vandals and enemies being called insurgents; it's political spin, so far you're right.

    Whatever happens, I do continue to believe that riots are something for the police to be dealt with - protecting property and restoring order in the best way possible.
     
  9. Anduil

    Anduil New Member

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    Indeed riots that destroy public or anyone's property must be dealt by justice and police. They need to face the law and there is no doubt about it. When your shop or car is being vandalized by them they need to be punished.But i m afraid that many people never got arrested and just flee to avoid to be busted. And those people form groups and organizations that causes troubles in every society problem.

    For public education in GB i think that you got a point! There is a movement in previous years to separate public education from well-payed one. And i believe that separation was created when Education = Earn tons of money easily. When you study global history from ancient times till today you watch that public education always lacked from a well-payed teacher. In ancient Greece a poor boy couldn't have a proper education in maths or science like Alexander the great had when he had got as teacher Aristotle himself. In medieval times poor boys didn't know how to write. I don't talk about girls at all. You know what was happening. And some decades before people earn by strikes to make public education strong. And now that goverments make the taxes and the fees for education in Univercities higher everyone saying what the hell is happening. But goverments don't care about education of the folk. They just care about how to make money from education than paying for it. It is starting new years teaching in Greece in few days and in public schools they don't have new free books for the kids. They say there is no money. And imagine that Junta in 1974 was the power that made the books of public schools free of charge. And now democracy failed the folk cause there is no money. OR they just want to make the parents to get their kids to a school that they gonna pay huge amounts of money every year.
     
  10. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Ultimately, it's not the responsibility of the State, even in a democracy, to educate every citizen equally.
    The government should work toward providing a basic education for all, and that's it. The responsibility rests with the individual to obtain the education and skills/training they need for whatever occupation they desire.
     
  11. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

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    Basic education is just only the start. When we use the term education, it's not just about them knowing the relevant stuff basic or other wise. Above all if the powers that be can't even put the students in their own rightful place as in teaching how to have their heads properly screwed on, then whatever talk on education is just sheer irrelevancy. That's the major problem with my country right now. All academics, but no real lesson on how to live your own life. Granted the top priority should lie with the parents, but if they can't do the job due to different circumstances, then it's up to the educators to step in. Period. This isn't a case of rocket science, but that of the most basic obligation. Whether the relevant bigwigs would give a damn about it though is a different story. -.-