London Riots

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by evadra, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Actually that's what anarchists do here too.They call the looting and destroying as "struggle" against everything they don't like.And WHAAAT THE HECK IS GOING ON IN ENGLAND?I just watched the news and man that's crazy there!It's a war zone!
     
  2. Lego

    Lego God amongst men

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    In my opinion these people aren't worth the air they breath. But then Again I think that about chavs in wasters anyway.
     
  3. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    These yobs have burnt ordinary people out of home & businesses, it appears they'll get a taste of how it feels

     
  4. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    Okay. Fingers for who thinks this opinion is partially at the root of the current riots?
     
  5. Padmé

    Padmé Mrs Cascador

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    Yep, that was what I was getting at in a previous post about how I'm also worried about how people will react to the riots. Wishing harm on other human beings is wrong, period, regardless of what they have done. If they harm, doesn't mean you should. You need to be better than they are, not the same but hiding behind different morales.
     
  6. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    I want these looters to stop and for justice to be done for the crimes they have committed, I don't want them to be physically harmed unless that is the only way to get through to them or stop them doing harm to others. Their behaviour is irrational, they ae doing harm to others emotionally, physically and financially. UK plc already has a bill for 100s of millions of pounds for damage, policing, lost business, lost jobs, theft that will have to be picked up by the taxpayer. For what?.. so these idiots can have a good time destroying others lives?

    We are better than them. Not because of class, wealth, education or opportunites but because we are not trying to destroy. The UK is a pretty tolerant place. Everyone has access to education and you can progress from any background if you have the desire and attitude to do so. We have an over generous benefit system which encourages dependency, which is at the root of some of the problems ~ I blame Labour for that! I've really got little time for bleeding hearts about the undertrodden. Society offers a safety net, it's for the individual recipient to climb up of it. If they don't want to conform to normal societal behaviours or respect that others are working to provide the safety net that they enjoy, then don't claim anything, don't expect anything and don't use any services in fact go somewhere else altogether!
     
  7. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    I'm off to Hunt a Hoodie now ;)

    I've had my jabs so should be abe to handle a rabid chav :D
     
  8. Lego

    Lego God amongst men

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    No I'm sorry but that reason is crap! Everyone in the UK is in hard times right now. I've been to Uni and got no job at the end of it, but I am working anyway. I took a job at Wallmart for christs sake, and I am working hard on other things. I am making the best out of a bad situation. Sure I will peacefully protest! But I am not doing this kind of thing!

    AND FOR THE LAST TIME THESE ARE NOT RIOTS!!! These are low life thugs who are smashing up properties, homes, shops and stealing! They aren't standing up for anything. SO I am not sorry for what I have said. THEY NEED TO GROW UP AND GET OVER IT!

    Guess what LIFE SUCKS! F***ING DEAL WITH IT!!!
     
  9. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Surely there's no need for these kind of reactions. This is a debate forum. If you can't take the criticism on your opinion, then I suggest you leave, before you only stress out yourself even more, cause obviously from your reaction, you are.
     
  10. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    ^ I don't think Lego was responding to any criticsm just expressing the frustration and anger generally felt towards these selfish yobs. On the whole Brits accept we're in difficult times and grit our teeth and just get on with it.

    Last night much quieter... largely because it was raining... it appears we have fair-weather yobs, real revolutionaries :rolleyes:

    One thing that did make me laugh was the following:

     
  11. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Same counts for that. I can understand where his frustration comes from, but there's no place for that here either.
     
  12. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    Why not? Why should posters lie about how they feel or hide their opinion to sanitise the debate?
     
  13. Lego

    Lego God amongst men

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    I'm sorry Ced but I'm not going to keep my mouth shut everyone is entitled to an opinion and no one has the right to tell someone otherwise. My frustration is vented at the people responsible, they need to grow up and get over it. I for one will not stand back whilst chavs ruin things for everyone else.
     
  14. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    It's not about hiding your feelings, it's about re-evaluating your reaction to events like this. I think in most cases that if you are affecting by murder for example you should be the last one to hand out the sentence, because you're not going to hand it out because of justice but revenge. Justice is one thing, revenge is another. These people who are rioting need help, just as much as those who are affected. Normal, well adjusted people wouldn't start riots like this. Clearly something is wrong and they need help instead of other people who are affected shouting out that they should be punished. Punishment is only a temporary solution and a brutal one, but as a human being you should ask yourself why these people feel these riots are necessary behaviour. Whether it's for looting, destruction or to scare people. They all need help in some form.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2011
  15. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    Anakin I take a diametrically opposing view.

    I believe this anti-social behavour should be crushed absolutely. I'm not interested in liberal views pandering to these yobs, it's these softly softly, society owes you special treatment / policies that have eroded resposnsibility to society by individuals. There is absolutely no justification for wanton looting and violence in UK society. The UK enjoys right of peaceful protest, free press, free elections, direct access to MPs, freedom of speech & expression so if you've got an axe to grind you can do so peacefully and publically.

    Now some will say that this was an angry backlash following the shooting in Tottenham and there may be some merit to that in explaining the initial flashpoint in Tottenham. However even that is questionable as the shooting happened last Thursday and a peaceful march held. I don't accept for a millisecond that the wider incidents in London and elsewhere have anything at all to do with the Duggan shooting. There is no excuse at all for arson or looting.
     
  16. Padmé

    Padmé Mrs Cascador

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    I don't think it is about there being an 'excuse', but do you think there was no reason at all for this to occur? Whether it's just 'oh this will be fun, let's go steal' or out of reaction of the shooting etc etc, none of those reactions are NORMAL. And to punish for the sake of satisfying anger alone, is pretty primitive and will not solve anything. Do these riots need to be stopped? Of course they do. They need to be stopped immediately, but just handing out punishments then throwing people back to where they came from without another word, do you honestly think it is going to erase what happened? Will they have learned anything from their wrong doings? No. Handing out punishments without some form of help is pointless, and only satisfies revenge. It's all very good to list what great things the UK has, as though to rid of any 'excuse' for these people to be behaving this way, but in the end, THEY ARE. And at great numbers. If it was one small isolated incident, this could be overlooked by the masses, but it has spread. And for whatever reason it has spread, the mentality that bred this behaviour needs to be addressed, and yes, helped. They can't continue through life thinking this way is right. Handing out a punishment will not help them feel a part of society. If they truly felt connected to the people of their city, they could never react this way. I could never react this way, because I think of the person. I would never even react violently against someone I hated, because I still respect the person, and those connected to them. But these people do not care who they effect, or worse, know who they effect and still laugh. So yes, help is very much needed for everyone effected by this chaos.
     
  17. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    Padme of course there must be reasons that some (a minority in my view) generally feel strongly about but whatever they are they are not justification for doing what they are doing nor should society start from the position of thinking 'you poor lost souls, it's all our fault, please wreck as much destruction as you want then come sit on my knee and tell us all about it'. If someone has committed a crime they should be punished not let off because they feel society owes them something. If there are common themes emerging that society needs to address fine, but these people also need to be taught that society operates by a shared moral standard, without it everyone loses, society cannot function and we'd all start behaving in a totally selfish way ~ like they are. If punishment opens their eyes to that expectation then it's more likely that long term solutions can rationally be discussed and implemented, but those solutions are not going to be a free lunch, a one-way street of we give, you take. It would be an insult to the peaceful majority working within 'the rules' if the yobs got special treatment under the justice system and beyond, effectively being rewarded for their unlawful destruction.

    In short stop the violence, or be stopped. If you want society to respect & respond to issues you won't get it if you're throwing petrol bombs and biting the hands of those who feed (could help) you.

    They should take lessons from the student protests ~ massive peaceful demonstration sending a powerful message to MPs (even though all main parties would have increased fees anyway and certainly won't reverse them unless economy improves markedly) ~ totally overshadowed by the violence. End result their arguments could be ignored because focus was on trouble not the issue.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2011
  18. Lego

    Lego God amongst men

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    I was reading in the paper today that a thug who was involved said he had no reason for doing it. They just wanted free stuff and it was fun. They threw bricks because they were there and it was fun.
     
  19. bloodfiredeath

    bloodfiredeath Die by the Sword

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    I think no matter what the economy does they wont reverse the fees! Besides someone has to pay for education, why not the people who want it the most?? :p
     
  20. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    That was echoed on this interview in Croydon... Croydon faces a bill of £10s of millions just for buildings damaged.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

    99% scum, 1% genuinely aggrieved about something that is unfair imho.