London Riots

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by evadra, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. evadra

    evadra New Member

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    So London seems to be running a mock with idiots Doug as they please. The police seem to be.largely petrified them do this. Why are they not more heavy handed? I think they fear repercussions like what happen at the G20. However I say **** em. If people are going to loot, and smash things up for no reason they should feel the strong hard ARM of the law. Forget their human rights, what about the rights of all the law abiding citizens around them?

    This is a strove reaction for me. But if I am honest it scares me. I used to live in London right where some of this is happening. And I have friends who still live there. I just wish I was still working with the police, but alas I am safely out in the country side now.

    What are everyone else's thoughts?
     
  2. Lego

    Lego God amongst men

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    They're all a bunch of low life scum using the death of some chav as a smoke screen to cause violence and destruction. Its stupid. I say the police should be armed and given free reign to get some social cleansing done tonight. They've even started rioting where i live in nottingham. Its ridiculous.
     
  3. evadra

    evadra New Member

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    The riots in other cities show it is nothing to do with the death of this guy. The papers quote the family of this dead guy who make out that he wasn't armed and was a good guy, like they are a reliable object source to comment. The police in this country rarely shoot an unarmed Man. If they do I'm sure there is a justification.
    You are right though, the police need to step it up a notch!
     
  4. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    Please merge with the Athens riots thread :)
     
  5. Lego

    Lego God amongst men

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    Its just a joke. Bunch of no good chavs. Where's the zyklon B when you need it?
     
  6. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    I'm with Lego!It's unacceptable.Have we gone back to the ape era?Smashing skulls with sticks and bouncing from tree to tree?Planet of the Apes?This has to end.
     
  7. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Aye its not really a riot since they aren't rioting against anything, its more just free-for-all shop raiding and torching.


    I suspect the police are not pushing down super hard incase it creates and actual enemy for the mob to focus on and fight against - and instead hope that it will fizzle itself out after a day or two....
     
  8. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    The IPCC have confirmed M Duggan's gun was real, it had not been fired and the bullet that struck the police equipment appears consistent with the type issued to the police. I don't know the full facts of what happened but if he was waving his gun around I can understand why the Police fired ~ carrying guns in any case is illegal. The police are saying they fired because they believed there was a threat to human life so that would seem to suggest that he was waving his gun around.

    My blood boils when I consider the riots. These have nothing to do with the police shooting, you don't respond to that sort of incident by deciding to go steal a TV. As one senior police officer put it ~ they've not responding with anger, they've responding with greed. These yobs are opportunists, arsonists, looters, muggers, attack police and other emergency services and are utter scum. I'd love to see the police go in really hard but last night there just wasn't enough of them.

    What's just as irritating is the 'justification', mainly coming from Labour MPs, of why these youths should be disfunctional blaming the current government spending cuts. This just isn't supported by the facts... these people are not protesting, haven't got a cause, they're just out for themselves. Most young people don't have chips on their shoulder they get on with it in what is a difficult economic situation for everyone. A lot of the individuals are teenagers so would have grown up mainly under the past Labour party administration so their immorality, lack of respect and inadequate parenting haven't just materialised in the last 14mths under this coalition government. Youth employment is an issue with c20% under 25yrs out of work. It's been a problem for a decade and rose sharply since the recession in 2008 like many other European countries. Burning businesses in their own communities which could generate wealth and give them jobs is hardly going to help solve that issue.

    London has been badly tarnished which is really sad with the olympics here next year. These yobs do not represent the vast majority of Londoners who are decent people on the whole. Vermin needs to be eradicated, hopefully the police have the necessary equipment to do so and lock them away.
     
  9. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    I must admit having only listening to reports of the riots on NPR I didn't appreciate how out of control they had gotten until seeing video footage this morning on CNN... wow, what a mess. Those people aren't protesters, they're street punks and need to be rounded up and jailed in mass. My guess, as an American whose lived in (California) a State where immigration has run amuck for decades, that England is finding out what happens when you don't have higher standards on who enters your country to live. I'm also guessing that unemployment plays a large part in the unrest, but that's no excuse for torching businesses and scaring decent people. I think the police are in a no-win position.


    Just to give you Londoners some perspective on your current situation... I worked in an area of Compton during the Los Angeles Riots in 1992. After days and nights of mob riots, in which 53 people died with damages topping one billion, it was regular citizens who took it upon themselves to guard their businesses from the thugs.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2011
  10. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    The images of London burning are disturbing and unacceptable when the fires are set by looters and criminals or low-life "anarchists".London has been one of the world's major cultural capitals for centuries,to see it burn by scum who use idealogy to loot and destroy is such a pity.
     
  11. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    What a debate so far...

    Are we looking at police riots ? I can't make up my mind about it.

    Of all the riots I can remember, it looks most like the LA riots of 1992. I think we can accept those were police riots... But then again, I really haven't heard any input from people who support the rioters for some reason. So far, it's anyone's guess what motivates the participants. Commentators are making a stab in the dark, it seems.
     
  12. Padmé

    Padmé Mrs Cascador

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    Yeah I agree that these idiots are not causing all this mayhem because of any ideology. They may claim it but if they were seriously wanting change in the UK, why are they not causing destruction around the Houses of Parliament, Downing Street etc No they are just looting because they want to loot, to cause destruction because it is fun. And the sad thing is, it is this kind of senseless chaos that gives the government the perfect opportunity to increase it's power in the name of safety, security etc, and because what people are seeing on the news, they will be scared into giving up certain freedoms in order to feel safe. But as the police in London have shown, they can't protect you if something like this happens. Some reports claim that some police were seen doing absolutely nothing as looting was going on, and I'm not entirely surprised, because the longer this sort of violence continues, the more the public will be willing to loose in order to stop it. It's a sad state of affairs. These morons think it's all just a bit of fun, but it is everyone in the UK that will be effected by the outcome. The words 'martial law' have been thrown around a lot more than I am comfortable with.
     
  13. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    I don't think ideology comes into it, really.

    However, it does seem that these sorts of riots are tied up by people, mostly young in age, with a very bleak future, especially compared to other stations in life. A future that includes unemployment, very limited dwellings, possibly fewer chances or less money than their parents. As such, they will often cross the path of police or even court and jail. These people generally feel they are a second - or even third - grade citizen. As such, anger is directed at society as a whole and, often, the police in particular.

    I don't think I can remember any exception to these rules. LA, Paris, Athens, London. All, by the way, were sparked by police violence.

    There is a definite matter of cause and effect here. Unless the chavs of London (and Manchester) collectively have figured out that, by historic parallel, they can demand to be taken seriously by grand-scale rioting after a police killing, which I don't suspect, we must accept that there is a base discrepancy within the English society that had these riots as a result.

    L'etat, c'est nous
     
  14. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    No matter what,when you see houses burning,stores burning,cars smashed,properties looted and people attacking other people on the street,it's not good.
     
  15. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    It's a matter of poverty for certain, but I think it goes deeper than that.
    Some people are poor and still remain rich in spirit and continue on in hopes their situation will someday improve. And then there are those ranks of the impoverished who are poor in every way a human being can be poor. We live downtown, so while our enclave in the historic district is quite nice (working white and black families), we have poverty all around us. Some of these people deserve their lot in life, sorry to say, they have no right to prosper and no matter the amount of social awareness or programs brought to bear they cannot be saved from it.
     
  16. Lego

    Lego God amongst men

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    I was in town todayand saw how shop windows were smashed in. Its mob mentally. I am sick to death of the underclass we seem to have in Britain which are ruining the country and the toffs a the top who do bugger all and just make it worse
     
  17. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Again agreed!
     
  18. Lego

    Lego God amongst men

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    Social cleansing is in order.
     
  19. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    If the cap fits wear it. If these individuals, their families, friends or whatever are making them believe they're 2nd/3rd class citizens despite having the same free education as the majority of the UK population they've only got themselves and their guardians to blame. They're born with a brain but choose to limit their ambition or at the very least are not encouraged. If youth unemployment is 20% it follows that 80& of youths are not. Even if % is double, 40% unemployed in disadvantaged areas still the majority have work.

    These people are not protesting against police violence, indeed if this Duggan chap was carrying the police were correct in taking him out if, as they say he was, a threat to others. The protests are not in the main attacking police they are focusing destruction on ordinary people, property, businesses, vehicles, public transport and taking every opportunity to loot along the way. I'd hazard a guess that most of these people don't even know who Duggan is and could not offer a coherent reason for their actions other than 'because they can' or 'I want someone else's new phone/tv for nothing'.

    I don't accept there is a base discrepancy in English society, the only real limitation is an individuals attitude and effort. Thieving materialism is not a measure of power, protest or ideology it's domestic terrorism where ordinary people are hurt and cannot go about their normal lawful business. Padme expressed a concern about the police (state) deliberately sitting on their hands so that they get more power, I'd say they have tried to avoid escalating the situation. A significant percentage of the population too scared to go out of their front doors would quite frankly prefer them to shoot looters and arsonists on sight.

    Britain has turned into a nanny state where everyone has rights but not the responsibilities. If you get something out of the system you're expected to put something back in even if that's only a socially acceptable standard of behaviour.
     
  20. psychotick

    psychotick New Member

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    Hi,

    Even here in New Zealand I've been glued to my telly watching the riots (and the financial meltdown). There's almost nothing else on. Its shocking, seing a proud city being sacked by its own people - though I understand most of these new vandals are actually kids. Its also not ideologically driven. Its purely about frustration and exhileration and stealing.

    The weird thing is that they are using twitter to direct their looting. These kids think they're so smart, getting around the police like that. But I suspect they've been too clever for their own good. I wonder if they've realised that those same clever tactics are going to turn around and bite them on the bum when the police start accessing their twitter accounts and making plenty more arrests. Lets hope a few pleasant years in the slammer teaches them some lessons.

    Cheers.