Legolas the SuperElf vs. the Mumak

Discussion in 'Movies' started by Gûd Daedheloth, Dec 19, 2003.

  1. RPC

    RPC New Member

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    ill probably be criticized for saying this in here, but i HATE the counting kills thing by legolas and gimli. yes i know its in the books and thus deserves mention in the films, but each battle scene to hear them counting like that really takes away from the serious danger that the audience is supposed to believe that they are in. This is a battle! yet the counting makes it as if the situation is no more serious then counting cookies or something. If i remeber correctly from the books, gimli and legolas meet up after the battles to compare numbers, they aren'y happily singing out numbers mid battle as the films show.
     
  2. Strider

    Strider Eccentric

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    Neither do I normally and some will ask when I ever think ;) The rest of the movie I was pretty much in a trance state. But when Legolas jumped on that oliphant, my brain started functioning :rolleyes:

    As for the counting out loud. That was put in to take some load off the seriousness. There are younger people watching these movies.
     
  3. Sabishii

    Sabishii Sindarin

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    That is exactly the point of the "counting thing." When you and a group of people are in a difficult situation, do you just freeze and shudder for 5 hours or do you try to lighten everybody's mood? It's called morale; morale takes the warrior away from fear of death.
    Furthermore, Tolkien's books are strongly inspired by the olden tale, Beowulf. In that story, the people are in a warrior culture, in which they kill, kill, and kill, yet are cheerful to a fault because they enjoy fighting their enemies.
     
  4. Gûd Daedheloth

    Gûd Daedheloth Foe of Morgoth's Realm

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    Agreed, Sabishii. In fact, the Rohirrim in the books were singing as they charged on the Pelennor. PJ said he didn't do that so it didn't look like Monty Python, and I agree with his decision, though I think they could have done it so it didn't look cheesy (maybe have the singing as part of the soundtrack or something). Anyway, even though I started this thread, I'll just reiterate what I said. The only good part was Gimli's comment. Legolas' counting was OK, not bad, not good. After seeing the movie 3 times, my reaction is still the same as the first time I saw it. --> :rolleyes:
     
  5. RPC

    RPC New Member

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  6. Sabishii

    Sabishii Sindarin

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    Hmm... I'm sort of agreeing with you now. However, I think that the "comic appeal" wasn't the only thing that lessened the atmosphere; IMO it was already slightly weird that the three just jumped out of the boats - I was expecting them to drop a ramp and then a human army to pour out first.
     
  7. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    Having a counting game such as they did, within a hectic battle, it would be amazingly difficult to concentrate, counting out loud would help with that. PJ just decided to show us this and i think it provided morale for the film.

    As for the oliphaunt bit, i think it was okay but the only overthetop bit was sliding down the trunk.
     
  8. elvenarcherinarms

    elvenarcherinarms Fellow Archr of Mirkwood

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    I thought it was classic, [esp. after his stint in Towers] ..this totally topped that and more! Made me laugh for all its unbelievability! :ah-ha: It certainly adds to the <fantasy> aspect of these films.. I mean, he takes down the entire fleet of Haradrim and kills off the Mumak single-handedly! Not even Hollywood goes that far! :hehe:
     
  9. Shinagani

    Shinagani New Member

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    I said this somewhere else, that's what's so great about watching(and reading about) Gimli and Legolas fighting. They don't act like their lives are on the line, they never seem to realize if they screw up they're dead. And even in the books you get this impression, during Helm's Deep they took the time to shout numbers to each other during the battle, I think that PJ did a good job in showing that they know they're so good that they just stop caring and it becomes a game, and that's what gives them the guts to pull such crazy stunts.
     
  10. Stefanus

    Stefanus New Member

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    over done, but come on this is Legolas, Prince of Mirkwood, Immortal unless slain, and probably Legolas was fated not to die in battle, as it is hinted that things are fated in Middle Earth, I thought PJ was trying to make something that could rival Luke Skywalker when He takes down the AT-AT with his Light saber in the Empire Strikes back. It was a cool scene, but I find it funny how they associate Legolas with Skateboarding in both TTT and ROTK, maybe because he has long blond hair like Californians who love to ride on Boards, well maybe it was "overdone" but this is Middle Earth, anythiing can happen, Come on There was once flying ships written by Tolkien, why can't Legolas take down a Mumakil
     
  11. Elvenblademaster

    Elvenblademaster New Member

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    I really liked it it shows the action that tolkien didnt write, like in FoTR, when aragorn faught ugluk instead of eomer. Or ttt, when gimli fights with aragorn to defend the gae instead of eomer, and in ROTK eowyn and eomer and theoden all taking down a Mumakil, and then legolas climbing up this rope then climbing on arrows and spears( I found the climbing on arrows a little unrealistic, if they all were spears that would have benn better) while still counting his kills and then firing three arrows directly in the spinal stem of the mumak, and yes the sliding down the trunk thing was a little silly but emeber the way that he remounted behind aragorn in ttt when they were fight the wargs, but what else was he suposed to do, the only thing I did not like was that aragorn saw the mumak coming and he was like 'Legolas' and motioned to it, like he knew that legolas could do it. If you think about PJ blended all the real Elf warriors into legolas instead of having Legolas, Glorfindel, Elladan and Elrohir, they just had legolas and he was awesome. Do I really think LEgolas could bring down a mumakil single handedly no not unless it was withan arrow through the eye to the brain, but it was still awesome. All in all they have taken away from some characters and given to others, but thats a movie director for ya.
     
  12. Gûd Daedheloth

    Gûd Daedheloth Foe of Morgoth's Realm

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    In FotR, Aragorn fought and decapitated Lurtz. Ugluk was the leader of the remaining Uruk-hai in TTT (he had kindof blondish hair on top), who was killed with the rest of the Uruks and had his head impaled on a pole (presumably by Éomer). In the books, there was no Lurtz, and Ugluk was the leader from the beginning, who fought with Éomer.
     
  13. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    I heard or read a PJ interview that said fan reaction to the Legolas "moments" in Fellowship made him rethink the character and make up more cool stuff for him to do. It's a fantasy character in a fantasy movie after all, why not play up their super abilities a bit?

    And seeing as they were redoing FX shots and acting etc until mere weeks before they had to start making the final prints, PJ did go back and tweak several scenes, and apparently the Mumakil scene was a late addition, one final WOW moment for all us Legolas fans out there :)

    And Crusader, did I miss sarcasm in that comment, or do you seriously think a human could climb up arrows on a charging dinosaur-sized beast, then hang on with their feet and fire a bow etc?

    Anyway, I loved that scene, and all the other Legolas bits, and I'm sure someone will reference the Legolas "moments" on the DVD and extended DVD commentaries and documentaieis!
     
  14. Anduril

    Anduril Flame of the West

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    I thought it made Legolas look kind of inferior and flashy. Here's why.

    Legolas: Jumps atop a múmak and kills several haradrim and then kills the múmak doing a bunch of flashy moves.

    Eowyn: Takes two swords and cripples a múmak by slicing its legs.

    Eomer: Takes a single spear and takes out two múmakil.
     
  15. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    A human could do it mub, it would probably take a few more tries than legolas though. All you need is concentration, determination, good balancing and climbing.
     
  16. j_ertl22

    j_ertl22 New Member

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    I don't know why everyone didn't like it. ITS FANTASY!!!! Youre supposed to have awesome heroes that can do unbelievable things! Thats the point of fantasy. Over the top according to real laws of physics and what not? Yes. But limitations are supposed to be broken in stories like Lord of the Rings. Do you think that 300 soldiers would be able to defend a castle against 10,000 attackers? No. But thats how it happened. I don't hear anyone complaining that thats over the top.
    I thought that scene was awesome and it made me like Legolas even more.
     
  17. GondorianRanger

    GondorianRanger Lord of Valathil

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    Im with j_ertl22 on this one. I think that the scene rocked. Now i am a major realist when it comes to movies, but this scene was awsome. You guys are acting like people's reaction to Mission Impossible 2, and don't even say that scens was similar to M:I2. If legolas can walk atop of snow, he can very well climb on arrows. He's an elf, elves are incredibly agile. Anduril, are you dissing the scene with Eomer taking out the Harad leader, and the 2 Mumak? If you are than how dare you.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2004
  18. Anduril

    Anduril Flame of the West

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    No I am not. I am saying it's silly when you compare the two. And I am not saying elves couldn't do it in Middle earth. But for me, Eomer is the bigger action hero. And even Gimli got 43 at Helm's deep compared to Legolas's 42.

    And j_ertl22, 300 against 10,000 is not impossible. It's been done before. Think about it, the odds in Helm's deep are almost better than they were at Amon Hen. At Amon Hen the odds were 4 (Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, Boromir,) against 100. At Helm's deep it was 450 (not counting Gandalf and the Huorns) against 10,000. Now divide it. That would be 4.5 against 100. The only extra thing to consider is that most at Helm's deep were inexperienced fighters.
     
  19. Gûd Daedheloth

    Gûd Daedheloth Foe of Morgoth's Realm

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    Plus, the Rohirrim at Helm's Deep were not only fighting for their own lives, but those of their women and children. I'd say that really increases their fighting resolve. Plus the fact that they were in a very defensible position and they were backed into a corner, both proven throughout history to greatly help chances of victory.

    Am I starting to see a trend here? Any one who liked the scene seems to have already been in love with Legolas.
     
  20. Anduril

    Anduril Flame of the West

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    I always liked Legolas. And though he was never my favorite, he was up there.