Jon theory

Discussion in 'A Song of Ice and Fire' started by Leyana, Apr 24, 2007.

  1. Maester Joergensen

    Maester Joergensen New Member

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    I guess it is a freak incident that just happens sometimes. All i can say is that Ashara Dayne is described as having purple eyes. And that is it.

    Boy, has people spent much time procrastinating over what Howland Reed knows, or not knows. Please continue....:)

    You seem to have listed all the mayor clues that point towards the Rheagar+Lyanna=Jon (R+L=J) theory. There are others, but you seem to have found the big ones.
    I think it is very possible that Lyanna got Ned to promise, to keep the boys identity secret. "Promise me Ned". From what we saw with the Viserys and Daenerys issue, Robert would go to pretty extreme measures to get rid of any "Dragon spawn". It is true that Roberts hatred for Targaryens only started after Rheagar disappeared with Lyanna, so Lyanna couldn´t have known about it. But Robert was Lyannas fiancé, and she seems to know him pretty well.
    Her´s one of her great lines: "Love is sweet Ned. But Robert will never keep to just one bed."
    She must atleast have known Robert could get angry, and perhaps hurt the child.
     
  2. Maester Joergensen

    Maester Joergensen New Member

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    It has been proven so many times, both in the books (Blackfyre pretenders) and in real history, (that GRRM has admitted he draws from alot), that Bastards can make claims for a throne. And go thriugh with them to. Especially if the legitimate heir is a girl. And if he has the practical things on his side. Like support from other nobles and a army.

    This is one of the reason that nobles generally distrusts bastards.
    It is one of the main reasons Cat dislikes Jon being brought in the Stark household (besides being prof that Ned cheated on her) He is the same age, give or take, as her eldest son. And he has the Stark look, which her eldest son doesn´t.

    I have never seen the reason why people focused so much on the issue of legitimacy. Rules get broken. Especially when dynasties are dying out. Especially during times of conflict. Especially if the bastard is a crafty one.
     
  3. Maester Joergensen

    Maester Joergensen New Member

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    Several beat me to those posts above.
    It seems purple eyes run in the Dayne familie.
    Darkstar is the nickname of Ser Gerold Dayne. Can´t remember how he is related to Arthur or Edric. Guess he is Edrics cousin or so.
     
  4. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

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    Good points, all. Jon can make a claim, no doubt about it, but I do think Dany's legitimacy makes her the official heir although not necessarily the one who will get the throne (though personally I think she will).
     
  5. CB Swords

    CB Swords Forum Administrator

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    It isn't like Jon would be the bastard son of a tavern wench either. He may be illegitimate, but he'd be as high born as you could possibly get still.
     
  6. CB Swords

    CB Swords Forum Administrator

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    Remember too... Robb DID legitimize Jon already, he had his 6 "captains" put their seals on it. It was on the way to the Red Wedding. Who knows if multiple copies of his proclamation was made, or where the single copies ended up, but thats a plot point GRRM could always bring back up.
     
  7. GreyPilgrim

    GreyPilgrim New Member

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    I am quite sure that is sais that silver hair and purple eyes were the features of the men of the Valyrian freehold, not just Targs and the Daynes certainly do have these features. If I remember thelords of Driftmark do too, with Auranne Waters that reminds Cercei of Rhaegar.

    As for legitimac there is no proof that Rhaegar and lyanna were not married, Rhaegar could hardly expect what he thought would be the third head of the dragon in the prophecy be illegitimate.
     
  8. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    But was that a legitimization or just declaring Jon as his heir? In any case - even if it were the former, it'd be to legitimize him as NED's heir... not as Rhaegar's.
     
  9. Blackfish

    Blackfish Blood Angels' 5th co.

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    Personally, I believe Jon's Robert's son off Lyanna, so I highly doubt that he's a twin. =/
     
  10. Maester Joergensen

    Maester Joergensen New Member

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    I guess he could be Roberts son. But why hide the fact after Robert ascended the throne. As a royal bastard he would get a royal treament by Robert. Especially as he was the son of his beloved Lyanna.
    There would be no reason to lie about his parentry.
     
  11. Blackfish

    Blackfish Blood Angels' 5th co.

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    Well, remember what Cersei did to almost all of Robert's other bastard children. Plus Robert never was much of a father to any of his kids, even if Jon was Lyanna's son.
     
  12. Maester Joergensen

    Maester Joergensen New Member

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    I don´t know. At that point in time, Ned didn´t even know that Robert would marry Cersei after the rebellion. And even less how she would treat Roberts bastards.
    It is possible that Lyanna got Ned to promise to raise her son in the north, because she thought Robert would be a very bad father. But how would anyone, Lyanna or Ned, be able to tell with certainty that Jon were Roberts son, if Rheagar had "had his way with her" a lot of times, as everyone seems to believe. It is not like they had DNA test or anything. There is off course the possibility that Rheagar never touched her, being the honourable knight and all, and that she had only been with Robert. But in my opinion it seems a bit unlikely.
     
  13. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

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    I hadn't even thought of Jon being Robert's son. I do think it seems unlikely though - as well as what Maester pointed out, it really wouldn't fit with Robert's jealously of Rhaegar and his 'Rhaegar won dammit', speech.
     
  14. Leyana

    Leyana New Member

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    How old is Jon by the time of AFFC? I've totally lost track of the timeline of this series!
     
  15. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

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    16 I think, maybe 17.
     
  16. Blackfish

    Blackfish Blood Angels' 5th co.

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    Remember that every single Targaryen had silver hair, bastard or no, while every single one of Robert's bastards had black. I know this might seem like weak evidence, but that's one of the major reasons why I think Jon's Robert's.
     
  17. Senekha

    Senekha <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    Hm, I still go for the Rhaegar/Lyanna theory. I read once a theory that stated that perhaps Jon wasn't a Stark at all, but I think that's rubbish, for several reasons: (1) Jon's resemblance to Arya and to Ned (who was said to look like Lyana) (2) Jon's connection to a direwolf and (3) Lyanna's plea to Ned on her deathbed.

    That said, I still think Jon is Rhaegar's. Just...because. There's not much evidence for the Lyanna/Robert theory, as you guys have already pointed out. And Lyanna's and Rhaegar's love affair gives fairly good evidence to their theory - I definately don't think Jon is Ned's.
     
  18. Maester Joergensen

    Maester Joergensen New Member

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    That some of the present day Targaryens still have the silver hair and purple eyes are only a result of serious inbreeding within the Targaryen dynasty. They marry brother to sister remember. Or to other Valyrian houses like the Velaryons. Not all Targaryens have silver hair. If you want to see examples of Targaryens without silverhair, look in the Hedge Knight stories. Or go to towerofthehand.com and look at the physical descriptions of some of the Targaryens, like Valarr Targaryen.
    Lyannas dark starklook could easily have won out over Rheagars silver. Not that I don´t think that if they had had more children some of them couldn´t have come out with silver hair. It just flipped that way this time. If they are off course the parents. Still up in the air.

    And remember that Roberts other bastards also had the Baratheon Jawline, while Jon are said to have Stark facial features.
     
  19. Blackfish

    Blackfish Blood Angels' 5th co.

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    Good point. But I'm still sticking to my theory just because no one else is. :p
     
  20. Arianne

    Arianne New Member

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    Question...

    If Jon is the son of Rheagar and Lyanna... Whould would have more right for throne... He or Dany?
     
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