Jon theory

Discussion in 'A Song of Ice and Fire' started by Leyana, Apr 24, 2007.

  1. Leyana

    Leyana New Member

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    What do y'all think on the theory of Jon being a twin?? Just something i saw posted somewhere (no idea where), I'm not saying I think its right or anything....
     
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  2. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Jon being a TWIN? Now that's a new theory I haven't ever even heard of before...
     
  3. Plish

    Plish Soul Sailing Psychonaut

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    Any ideas as to who he'd be a twin with?
     
  4. Appaliq

    Appaliq No One

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    I haven't heard that one either.

    Seems to me like there's no relevant background info to support it, so I'm going to say no. However, knowing the way Martin writes, I think anything is possible.
     
  5. Leyana

    Leyana New Member

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    I've heard mention of his twin being Darkstar, and someone said Margaery Tyrell. :( Hopefully they were joking, coz I really dont like her. Oh and have you noticed that if you take some of the letters from 'Darkstar' you can make 'Stark'...? :p
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2007
  6. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

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    I've heard the Margaery Tyrell theory too, somewhere on Westeros (I think it was one of Nightflyer's if you want to look it up). I didn't find it too convincing though.
     
  7. Maester Joergensen

    Maester Joergensen New Member

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    Good old Nightflyer!
    :rolleyes:
    Crazy as a loon.

    Apparently it all stems from the incident where Renly showed Ned a painting of Margarery, and asked him if she looked anything like Lyanna.

    Thereby coming to the inescapeable conclusion that if she looked like Lyanna, she could only be Lyannas child and therefore Jons twin, if you are excepting the theory that Jon is the child og Lyanna and Rheagar. But that of course makes absolutely no sense. How could an infant be smuggled into the Tyrell household, without anyone noticing that Alerie wasn´t pregnant, not to mentain her resemblance to her brother Loras, which by the logic used above should also be Lyannas child.

    First of all Ned just shrugged it of, thereby leading to the conclusion that there were no particular resemblance, Secondly we had a later explanation for the incident. Renly wanted to marry Margarey to Robert and wanted to know if she were more Roberts type. He knew Robert was unhappy with his tall blond queen, and would perhaps want a girl that were more Lyannas type, ie. shorter and brownhaired.

    I can´t believe I am even discussing this theory.
    Damn you Nightflyer!! :screwyou:
     
  8. GreyPilgrim

    GreyPilgrim New Member

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    Margarery is completely mad. Darkstar on the other hand... Ned Dayne said that his House had helped with Jon after birth. They supplied the wet nurse, so if there were twins one could have taken after Lyanna the other after Rhaegar. That would make the three heads of the dragon and be a perfect mix of ice and fire, and Darkstar is cool he need a bigger part in the next book.
     
  9. Omega3R

    Omega3R Mi ne sijemo.

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    perhpas.
    might be.

    but, it will sound crazy, but who is darkstar? i don't remember him.
    silly of me to ask.
    but please, explain it to me. private message will do, too.
    thanks.
     
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  10. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

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    Darkstar is the guy in one of Arianne's chapters in AFFC. He helps them sneak Myrcella away and then wounds her when the Dornish army catches up on them. He thinks that killing her would be better than kidnapping her and Doran describes him as 'the most dangerous guy in Dorne'.

    That help? :)
     
  11. Arianne

    Arianne New Member

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    Do you think that Jon is definitely son of Rhaegar and a Targaryen?
    Or Martin could suprsise us?

    And can Jon be with Daenerys at the end?
    Because he is in the Night Watch...
    And I think that he sworn not to break their rules again after Ygritte...


    Sorry for my English...
     
  12. CB Swords

    CB Swords Forum Administrator

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    I think Jon will be leaving the Watch. GRRM read an excerpt from ADWD at a conference in which Stannis & Jon were having a conversation and Stannis was offering to legitimize him & make him lord of Winterfell.

    In ASOS Jojen tells Bran a story about a crannogman fighting in a tourney at Harrenhal before Robert's rebellion. This story has secret message written all over it. Just the way GRRM writes it, the way Jojen relates it to Bran, the way no names are used.

    I'm going to assume the jouster is Howland Reed, but what is more telling is the observations made in the story. For instance it was shown that Ned has a crush on a Targaryen girl (not entirely sure which), it was dated to when Jaime joined the kingsguard.

    Anyways... I'm rereading the books now and as I read that story I thought that maybe GRRM was alluding to Ned having a relationship with a Targaryen.

    There is other symbolism as well. GRRM says that bastards often take their father's colors in reverse. So that could be the significance of Ghost being an albino... but Targaryens have that silver/white hair and violet eyes... not too far from reddish-pink eyes & white hair.

    We know without a doubt that Jon has Stark blood, he has the features & is a warg. But we aren't sure for certain who his parents are. Perhaps all the times in the books where GRRM writes about how it was so unlike Ned Stark to father a bastard means he didn't father a bastard afterall.

    At times I really wish we had a prequel that covered Robert's rebellion & the bits leading up to it.
     
  13. Ilaelin

    Ilaelin The Mother of Dragons

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    Interesting theory. It's nice to see the boards buzzing again. As for the possiblity of Jon being a twin, I'd say with GRRM anything is possible.
     
  14. Maester Joergensen

    Maester Joergensen New Member

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    CB swords:
    It is generally believed that the story Jojen Reed tells Bran is about the Whents big tourney at the Eye of the World. The one where Rheagar crowns Lyanna queen of love and beauty.
    Wolfmaid = Lyanna
    Quiet wolf = Ned
    Wild wolf = Brandon
    Wolf pup = Benjen
    Dragon king = Aerys
    Son of Dragonking = Rheagar
    Son of the Lion of the Rock = Jaime
    Lady with Purple eyes that Ned Dances with = Ashara Dayne the rumored mother of Jon

    I think that is also why Jojen askes Bran several times if Ned haven´t told them the story. It is the story of Lyannas "Kidnapping" and the offshot for Roberts Rebellion.

    When Bran says that The Knight of the Laughing Tree should have made Lyanna Queen of Love and Beauty, Jojens answer is:
    "she was, but that is a much sadder story"

    I like the theory that Lyanna is the Knight of the Laughing three. We know that Lyanna was a good rider, because when Arya try to escape from the knights of the hollow hill, and Harwin catches up with her, Harwin tells her that she rides like a lady of the north, just like her aunt Lyanna. And when Ned discovers Needle in Aryas trunk, we learn that Lyanna also liked to carry a sword. So it is plausible that she trained with the lance to.

    And in Jojens story, we are told that the dragon king send his son (Rheagar) out to hunt down the knight of the laughing three. Lets say that Rheagar comes upon the knight off the laughing three somewhere out in the forest and unmask her as Lyanna. Couldn´t that cause him to fall in love with her. Or perhaps just want her because he thought he had discovered the ice that where missing in his prophecy "the song of ice and fire".
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2007
  15. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    I thought Jon had already been offered (& refused) House Stark by Stannis, in his bid to unite the North behind hiis Kingship bid? Haven't read it for a while so a little bit vague.

    It'll be interesting to see how Howland Reed himself is brought into the story being the only person alive to categorically know who Jon's parents are. Or has that information been given to Jojen perhaps?

    I don't pretend to be an expert so could it be that the Stark features are from Lyanna and not Ned? I know she died young (16?) but died on a 'bed of blood' ~ childbirth? Did Ned Stark defend her honour by claiming Jon was his or even to protect the child? Is that why so many Kingsguard were present? If the father was Rhaegar wouldn't that make Jon heir to the Targaryen throne, not Daeenrys? I'm sure real aSoIaF fanatics will put me right ;) :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2007
  16. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

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    Even if Jon's Rhaegar and Lyanna's son though he is presumably still illegitimate and not eligible for any crown. Although I guess Aegon originally had two wives legally... as for the rest, that's how the R+L=J theory usually plays out.
     
  17. CB Swords

    CB Swords Forum Administrator

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    I wasn't aware purple eyes existing outside of the Targaryens.
     
  18. CB Swords

    CB Swords Forum Administrator

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    Yup... but it obviously isn't settled yet in ADWD, so who knows.
     
  19. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Ashara Dayne had purple eyes; she's actually mentioned in the KoLT story as the laughing maid with purple eyes. Or so I remember, given that I last read SoS about 9 months ago. =X

    That is one of the pieces of evidence supporting the R+L=J theory.

    This is relatively uncertain; bastards have inherited before, IIRC, but that was for non-royal houses. There are a couple things in favor of Dany: 1) She's pure Targaryen, unlike Jon. 2) She's trueborn. However, it's also known that Rhaenerys (or was it Rhaenyra? I really have to reread =X) was ignored in favor of her younger brother Aegon, which is what led to the Dance of the Dragons. So - Jon may have a stronger claim, especially given how conservative most of the Houses are.
     
  20. Blackness

    Blackness Well-Known Member

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    Ofcourse they exist :D
    The guy that cut Myrcella had purple eyes... can't remember the name though...
    Night Star or Dark Star. :p
     
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