Islam: an excuse or victim?

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by azuren82, Mar 17, 2009.

  1. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    That would help a lot ;)
     
  2. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    I think it is inevitable that you will get people's personal opinions on this matter as it is a very sensitive matter. Religion always is. And my purpose was not to turn this into a Islam vs. Christianity debate, but when you're comparing both, it is again inevitable that religious people will defend their religion of course even if you try to stay objective or not. I'm not denying that I was subjective at times, but as I said in subjects as these that is unavoidable.
     
  3. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    Try harder to avoid it. =| This isn't about whether or not we agree with Islam, if I understood the OP correctly. It's supposed to be about whether or not what we see of Islam through the media is "what it is" or "an extremist point of view." IIRC Azuren managed pretty nicely to keep all of his personal opinions out of the discussion. I couldn't care less in a personal way about either religion, but it does upset me when I see how the media discusses Islam without any kind of factual basis on Islam's belief for their opinions.
     
  4. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Well I surely think that what you especially see in the media is more of an extremist point of view. In giving my opinion I already shared of my own experiences just to compare how Muslims can be different and totally unlike what you see in the media. So yeah I think that generalizing how Islam is such a bad influence... That they are terrorist is certainly just a generalization by expressing that what you see of the extremists on TV is exactly what Islam is, while it's not.
     
  5. ScreenXSurfer

    ScreenXSurfer Better Than You

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    Except for me? Because my post have been clear examples of constant use of internet mannerisms in regards to the English language, right? And why the hell am I e-knighting? I'm making a point. In case you didn't understand it, going on about correct grammar when one simply removed the vowels from one word, results in one becoming an internet grammar Nazi. Case in point, saying ppl instead of people requires one to point it out to state some opinions nobody agrees with, unless there is somebody in this forum that didn't take him seriously for using ppl. The example given isn't somebody removing all the vowels from every single word, but a harmless habit that somebody frowned upon, of which I don't agree with. This is the debate forum after all, I can debate whether or not internet lingo is acceptable on the internet, especially in a small dose. if u we're 2 typ liek this then i can undrstnd, bcuz this gets fruserating, but typing like this bcuz it has become 2nd nature is hardly something to get your knickers in a twist over.

    As to writing to a college professor, there is a time in place for speaking with slang and speaking correctly. This web page is not necessarily for the latter.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2009
  6. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    I think a basic fundamental aspect of all races and religions is "I just want to be left alone to do my thing."

    I'm sure Average Joe Muslim doesn't want to convert the world by the sword. Average Joe American didn't want a war in Iraq. Etc etc. But the quite minority doens't get the attention that the vocal minorty gets. And Joe Quiet Public isn't willing to kill someone to put their point across, so in times of upheaval, the small number of armed and willing-to-kill extremists can easily take control, because the rest of us just want to be left alone.

    Many Iraqs have said they'd rather go back to Saddam's era, because even though he was a cruel despot, a lot of the time, people were just kind of left alone. Nowadays Joe Iraqi is worried about getting blown up while going to the markets.

    As many of us have said, I have muslim friends. They're normal people. They don't want to cut my head off or convert me. They just want to make their way in the world. Militant Islamic extremists however are prepared to do anything in order to defeat the great western satan and save the world by converting them to Islam.

    Any religious text can be selectively used to promote peace or violence.
     
  7. Senekha

    Senekha <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    Oooooo, I'd start a debate with you about this matter here but this is not the right thread....and I'm too lazy to create a new one. I wrote a paper on this subject last semester...
     
  8. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

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    No sorry, that's not really debatable.

    http://www.thefantasyforum.com/showthread.php?t=5670

    Refer to the second rule.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2009
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  9. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

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    Edit: Apologies, accidental double post.
     
  10. ScreenXSurfer

    ScreenXSurfer Better Than You

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    Then it is a rule I do not agree with. But I'll follow the guidelines and will make no attempt to continue the discussion.
     
  11. azuren82

    azuren82 Berserk got banned...

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    Ok guys, let's keep this one on topic. No way I will want Skyanide coming here and close this thread. :S

    With that being said though, do you guys think that the Western world had hit a high degree of Islamphobia by this point of time due to all the negative stuff the media had portrayed? I'm not too sure what to make out on this since I'm not expert in Western people's psychology. So yeah, hope to see you guys' view on this. :)

    P.S: Just a question here. Do you guys mind if I include the whole Sunni-Shi'ite clash here. Incidents like this basically constitute to terrorism in a certain sense in my opinion. But then again, it's an issue of internal conflicts.
     
  12. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

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    I don't think it is so much Islamaphobia as much as it is Muslimaphobia. People fear the people who follow the religion of Islam, not the religion itself, because most likely they do not understand the religion.

    It is also my belief/experience that Muslims in Western countries are more "backward" in their thinking than those who live in countries such as Pakistan, India, Bahrain, so on and so forth (although I do believe many in Saudia Arabia are ridiculous). A lot of the tension comes from countries such as England where you have these radical outspoken Muslim. When I used to live in India (but primarily when my mother used to and has told me) there was a lot of religious tolerance amongst the different religious people (in Goa anyway). Different people of different religions would attend each other's religious festivities of friends without any arguements and there was respect for eachother.

    Now I do not know why such a thing is a case -the levels of tolerance vary depending on location in the world- but that is what has happened. I am not saying this might be the case everywhere, but it is what has happened where I am from. I am just pointing out that it is suprising such an arising of intolerence occurs in what one would consider a more developed and tolerant country than in a lesser one.
     
  13. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    Just repeating what I've seen some Iraqis (even non-Saddam supporters) saying on the international news.
    You could always email it to me and I could have a read :)

    I'm sure it's the same with some middle eastern people thinking "all westerners want to take over our countries!" after the Iraq and Afghanistan "invasions." Surely most of them don't really care one way or the other about western people as they have no dealings with them. But if their local news shows "more civilians killed by western forces" then of course they're going to become prejudiced.

    Similarly, most westerners don't hear much about the day to day affairs of middle eastern people. All the news they hear about is to do with bombs and guns and kidnappings.
     
  14. curunir's bane

    curunir's bane Kwisatch Haderach

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    Do I think we fear muslims? I think that there are quite a few americans who think that being muslim is a bad thing. With this past presidential election I heard so many people talking about Obama being a muslim and they definitely had a negative tone to their voice. For some reason they told me that being a muslim is bad. Everyone said "That's our problem as a nation. Americans are so stupid to think Obama is a muslim." My response to them was, "No, the problem is that we think being a muslim is a bad thing." It's the same as if I were to say that all christians are bad people or all jews are bad. Just because a certain group did some bad stuff doesn't mean that ALL of the others are bad. So yes, I definitely think many americans have completely lost sight of who muslims are and hold a stereotype of them being "bad" people.
     
  15. EstuansInterius

    EstuansInterius Ira vehementi

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    People converted to it without being forced.

    As for my personal beliefs, I like Islam a lot more than Christianity. I have a few friends that are Muslim. It really appeals to me as a sensible religion as far as religions go. I think Judaism is better than Christianity too, but that's off topic.

    Anyway, Christianity can be just as sexist. The Bible pretty much comes right out and says that women are inferior to men. I find aspects of the Bible a little racist as well.

    I do have to admit that, to an extent, when I hear terrorism, I think of Islam. My next thought is IRA, a Christian organization. Word associations aren't determined so much by opinion as by experiences.

    When it comes down to it, I really find all religions distasteful. There are very, very few religions that are only mildly distasteful, but I still don't like them. The major religions/major factions of major religions are particularly bad, but then, there's always some one worse than them as well (such as crusading Christians or Islamic extremists). I don't really like Islam, but, for the most part, I think mainstream Islam is a little better than mainstream Christianity. Maybe the only reason I think that is because I haven't seen enough of the world yet, but it's what I think.
     
  16. Senekha

    Senekha <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    Not necessarily...I seem to recall something along the lines of, "Convert, or be killed..." from both among the crusader-era and among today's extremists....of course, those are extremists, not every-day Muslims.
     
  17. EstuansInterius

    EstuansInterius Ira vehementi

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    Well, yes, that's sorta what I'm saying. While the extremists exist, their extremism isn't sanctioned by the Quaran. At least, I'm pretty sure it isn't :p I haven't read the book myself.
     
  18. darkfox

    darkfox New Member

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    There was once this really extremist group who started off humbly enough with 10 rules to live your life better. Eventually some of them got together and started building their utopia of love and acceptance. It was wonderful for a thousand years.

    Then they heard some people living in the desert somewhere had some artifacts of their deity stashed away and decided they needed to liberate them.

    What followed was 300 years of bloodshed, violence, rape, wholesale murder and theft.

    They were called terrorists by those they crucified or burned at the stake as witches or heathens.

    You might know them better as Catholics.

    Both groups believe that they are the way to salvation of the human soul.
    Both groups believe they are right and everyone else is wrong.
    Both groups have targeted people who are different from them and led the charge to kill them in the name of their God.
    Both groups have committed horrible acts of depravity that their own religion preaches against.
    Both groups are famous for interpreting scripture so that it proves they are doing God's will.

    When you really boil down the difference between terrorists a thousand years ago and the ones we have today is really only one....it's called youtube.

    Sure, I'm painting them with a pretty wide paintbrush. Not all Catholics are crazy, but neither are all Muslims. Like any group though...they have a VERY vocal minority who make life interesting for everyone else.

    So is Islam right or wrong for going bat $hit crazy?

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  19. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Speaking of Islam,I found some "interesting" photos on the net:



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    Islamophobia or Provocation?
     
  20. Liadan

    Liadan Insert Title Here

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    You know, for a few minutes, I actually tried to write an insightful post about how all good Christians did something similar in their time--maybe not hold up signs, because the slogan thing is more recent--from the Crusades to the Spanish Inquisition to the Irish Protestant vs. Catholic conflict, all of which were previously mentioned in this thread, IIRC. Then I changed my mind.

    Really, Foinikas? I could go to Google Image, type in "Christian extremists," spend 5 minutes searching around, and find photos as "provocative" as those listed above too. I expected better of you.