Immortality of Tuor

Discussion in 'Books' started by Radagast, Sep 21, 2004.

  1. Radagast

    Radagast Art House Member

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    I'm hoping to create a couple newer threads in this area, so I have been internet searching for good topics. Here's the first one I came across.

    First off, if you read carefully, it does not actually say that Tuor was admitted into Valinor, right? Just that he sailed West. Another point to consider is, assuming he made it to Valinor, whether he was actually granted immortality. It states that he was "numbered among the elder race" and "joined with the Noldor", but that leaves some room for doubt. Any other quotes to clear this up?

    Last thing to consider is if Tuor was granted immortality, why? He was Man, Idril was elf. But in Luthien/Beren's and Aragorn/Arwen's case, we see a stronger trend for the Elf to become mortal. Why was it the opposite way around in this case?

    Thoughts?
     
  2. isengard111

    isengard111 The Master Chief

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    It says that he was numbered among the Elves, with a different fate from Men. I just assumed he just was given immortality.
     
  3. Nienor

    Nienor Administrator Staff Member

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    Lets start with the only known pairings of human/elf in the Sil are Luthien/Beren, Arwen/Aragorn and Idril/Tuon. It's hard to make a case study out of only three cases. So, it's best to look at each time as a separate incident.

    *briefly re-reads through Sil*

    In the case of Luthien/Beren, it was her choice to return as mortal.
    In this case, it was clearly Luthien's personal choice to return as mortal. Since Beren could not accompany her to Valinor.

    Arwen seems to lack free choice in the matter.
    Any choice to fully remain in ME would cause Elrond's children to become mortal. Therefore Arwen and Aragorn weren't given the choices Elwing, Elrond and Elros had.

    But looking at your quote, Rad, it does leave some room for question. In Beren and Luthien's relationship, it is clearly said that the Valar does not have the right to take away the gift of men. Yet, it appears that Tuon has been granted immortality.
    By this statement, I would presume an exception was made (by Illuvatar?) in Tuor's case. Why? I can't say because of his valor, because both Beren and Aragon show the same bravery. Perhaps just because he and Idril chose this as their fate.

    I can see wisdom in either choice. It is fairly obvious why men would wish to become one of the Eldar. No fear of death. But I can also see why an Elf would wish to become mortal. After lifetimes of being bound to the griefs and cares of Middle Earth, it might be pleasant to be able to slip beyond those bounds to everlasting peace.
     
  4. Lady_of_Shalott

    Lady_of_Shalott Weaving the Magic Web

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    Very interesting topic here. Now, didn't the whole Tuor and Idril thing happen before the end of the First Age? That might help explain it, because that whole choice about being mortal or elven happened at the end, like Nienor said. So I guess things were a bit different back then.
     
  5. Numenor53

    Numenor53 Member

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    Nienor, where did u find that quote on Tuor????
     
  6. darthrage

    darthrage Sith Lord of the Realm

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  7. darthrage

    darthrage Sith Lord of the Realm

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    I've seen lots of discussions in lots of places in relation to the whole "granting of immortality". I'm far from an expert on LOTR or the Silmarrillion but I believe that the general consensus among the informed is that immortality cannot be "granted." Those that go "into the west" are only able to get as far as the Isle of Eresa (spelling?) but do not actually go to Valinor.