Illegal Immigration in the USA

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Alchemist, Mar 30, 2006.

  1. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Illegal Immigration

    I heard on the news this morning that illegal immigrant workers across the USA are going on strike today which is causing havoc in several industries? Apparently they're doing it to highlight how important they are to the economy of the nation.

    It's a bit rich for someone with illegal status to hold a business to ransom, but like I've said in my previous posts, the companies are to blame for making illegal workers such a huge part of the business machine. The illegals have removed their "cog" from the machine, and like I predicted, the machine stops working, or slows to ineffectual output rates.
     
  2. Bard

    Bard Erchamion

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    Re: Illegal Immigration

    I also heard something about alot of Puerto Ricans losing their jobs?
     
  3. Harbringer

    Harbringer New Member

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    Re: Illegal Immigration

    they shouldnt have left their jobs today to protest then
     
  4. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    Re: Illegal Immigration

    Yes, there is a protest today, nearly all 12million are doing it. And yes Mub, you are right it is the businesses fault for highering them in the first place.

    What I find so offensive and so 100% wrong is that these ILLEGAL immigrants ( and yes, apparently i have to stress that word ILLEGAL so those like Colasal can see it ) is that they believe they have the right to protest our country's laws. They dont even belong here and they think they have the right to change our government.
    Now if an american went to mexico to protest ( not likely though ) they would be aressted and jailed for 2years before being deported. And thats if your lucky not to get a beating. So where do they get this idea? If you want to stay become legal and then you can LEGALLY protest all you want.

    This is just utterly disgusting.

    Another thing I saw when watching the newsbroadcast of them protesting is that 90% were waving mexican flags and even have sewn the american and mexican flag together. If they truly respect and want in America so badly wave the American flag! Support the country you are trying to get in to!
    Its appalling!

    -Again I am putting this disclaimer so those like Colasal can actually understand...
    I am not wanting the 12mil+ to be kicked out, I want them to BECOME LEGAL!!!!!!! ( is that clear enough? lets try again )
    I only want them to BE LEGAL and to secure the border so more ILLEGALS!!! cannot get in...ILLEGALLY!!!
    There is a right way and wrong way to do things.
     
  5. Bard

    Bard Erchamion

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    Re: Illegal Immigration

    Another thing, they sing the Anthem in Spanish now? No, English is our official language. We speak English here.
     
  6. Gil-Galad_360

    Gil-Galad_360 Aran Noldorin

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    Re: Illegal Immigration

    I agree with you guys, is not the people, is the WAY they do things.
     
  7. Bard

    Bard Erchamion

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    Re: Illegal Immigration

    Yes, Gil-Galad, I was telling Harbringer and Dwimmerlaik today...I have no problem with them, just the way they go about their business...
     
  8. Harbringer

    Harbringer New Member

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    Re: Illegal Immigration

    i think its illegal to sing the songs of america in any other language now..
     
  9. Bard

    Bard Erchamion

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    Re: Illegal Immigration

    That would be good, sure we were founded on acceptance, but this...this is just absurd.
     
  10. Dwimmerlaik

    Dwimmerlaik Captain of Despair

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    Re: Illegal Immigration

    imho, they are trying to get kicked out, WHO THE HELL (THAT IS ILLEGAL) WOULD GO PROTEST? SO THE AMERICAN'S CAN GET SOME TRUCKS AND DEPORT THE WHOLE BUNCH OF THEM. its really kind of stupid what they are doing, its like "come take us back home".
     
  11. Tinuviel

    Tinuviel New Member

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    Re: Illegal Immigration

    English is not the national language of the US, as we do not have a national language. So, I guess I don't see why anyone feels entitled to a song being sung in any particular language. If we want to get picky about it, it seems as if we should be speaking Native American languages, since they were the original inhabitants. Anyhow, I digress.

    I have very mixed feelings in regards to proposed legislation regarding illegal immigrants. On one hand, I do think we need laws and procedures established with which to handle illegal immigrants. I think it is obvious that we need to allow a markedly higher number of immigrants to LEGALLY enter our country to work, pay taxes, be entitled to fair wages, etc. The number of jobs held by(and for the most part, largely sought out by)illegal immigrants far outnumber our immigrant quota.

    On the other hand, the cost of labor that these illegal workers provide is minimal to the actual cost of goods(example: produce). I would absolutely be willing to pay the increase which many studies have shown would be minimal if our produce was planted by, tended by, and harvested by legal, fairly compensated workers. Plus, the cost to our economy by not only creating, but encouraging, a permanent poverty class is far greater than the increase in cost of apples. This is across the board for everyone living in the United States illegally and legally. The United States was founded by immigrants on the principles of doing better. Living better than previous generations. A country where anything is possible. But begin to willingly stand by and doom generations of people to only being good enough to work in dangerous conditions for a wage that can't support a family here (let alone the family they support back in Mexico), their education, their medical needs and it will cause many far reaching affects to a nation beyond the increase in price of a pound of apples. It is a very slippery slope.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2006
  12. Dwimmerlaik

    Dwimmerlaik Captain of Despair

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    Re: Illegal Immigration

    very true, but you know what? most immagrants cant get in here legally, so so they come illegally.
     
  13. Bard

    Bard Erchamion

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    Re: Illegal Immigration

    But Dwimmerlaik, they come here illegally...OK. Then, they want to be able to protest a government that isn't even theirs? Not OK.

    And I think that English is as good as our official language. 80% of our inhabitants speak it. We are taught how to use it in school...yeah, it's the language all of our documents are written in.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2006
  14. Dwimmerlaik

    Dwimmerlaik Captain of Despair

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    Re: Illegal Immigration

    yeah, i dont get the whole protesting part.
     
  15. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Illegal Immigration

    I'm sure that part of the reason for the march was also to thumb their noses at the authorities. It sounds too easy, just round them all up when they're in one spot and you can send all 1 million of them home! Of course, you'd need 12,5000 x 80 seat buses to do so which is quite a logistical feat. So to say "just deport them all" is kinda naive.

    Not to mention - would YOU want to stand in the middle of one milion protesters and say "Right, you're all udner arrest, now come along peacefully." Good luck getting out alive :)
     
  16. Bard

    Bard Erchamion

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    Re: Illegal Immigration

    That could be used to provoke military action? Then they would tell every other country in the world how cruel the US government is...
     
  17. Dwimmerlaik

    Dwimmerlaik Captain of Despair

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    Re: Illegal Immigration

    i think let them protest, where will it get them, just take record of the people there, and when the apply for citizen ship, just say no.
     
  18. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    Re: Illegal Immigration

    But the real deal is the U.S. government is one of the easiest countries to get into and the most lax when it comes to illegal immigrants. Other countries are alot more strict than ours, so I can see why we would be seen as cruel.
     
  19. Tinuviel

    Tinuviel New Member

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    Re: Illegal Immigration

    The vast majority of these folks WANT to be here legally. They want to contribute, pay taxes, and be functioning members of our society. The fact is, that it is an *extremely* difficult, confusing, and lengthy process. Many do not even know how to begin.

    If we did not have these illegal immigrants our society would come to a grinding halt. Our infrastructure as a productive society depends on their working for slave wages to provide affordable products to us as citizens. I'm not just talking cheaper apples and oranges. The whole circle of supply and demand between the US and illegal workers is really complex and interdependent. I think it would be moronically simple for someone to declare that we should just deport them. That would be like cutting us off at our ankles. They are the ground on which we walk and without them doing alot of the 'grunt' work, bits and pieces would begin to fall through the cracks until the void between supply for food, product, services, etc and the demand would be amazingly frightening.

    I do however think that we need to organize, classify, and in many cases legalize many of these illegals. We need to make this a simpler process for them as well. It is not just the immigrant who benefits from their being here, we as a whole can as well if done correctly. I can't imagine that the country OF immigrants has selfrighteous citizens who feel as if the people who want that very same American dream are in any way differnt than themselves or their ancestors. I can't imagine how few of us would be lucky enough to be here if our ancestors had to go through a process as confusing, contradicting, and lengthy as what we currently have in place. Not to mention that it is morally wrong the conditions, pay, and hazards that these workers(legal or illegal) are enduring so that we can spit in their face and tell them that we don't want them here.

    Do not mistake my intent, I fully agree that a change needs to occur. Our borders need to be fortified, our immigration quota needs serious reassessment and a reasonable and realistic number needs to be put in place, guidelines for salary, working conditions, and identification need to be scrapped and reformed. That is just the tip of the iceberg. However, no politician is going to tell the American public that in reality we actually do need MORE immigrants to maintain a style of living to which we have become accustomed, because that would be political suicide. They will find a way to make a law that has very little to do with the actual problem, but sounds as if it fixes our problem and still allow illegals to sneak in under the dark of night to work jobs that are the basis of our economy.
     
  20. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Illegal Immigration

    Umm...how exactly do you plan to "take records" of all the protesters?

    And the bosses won't report their workers who went to the protests, because then they'll be shouting loudly "I HIRE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS! PLEASE INVESTIGATE MY BUSINESS!!!"
    If anything they'll just fire them and hire another illegal.

    Hey, if anyone in the USA hears of the fallout (if any) from the march, as in workers being fired, can you keep us non-USA residents updated? We heard about the march but I'm not sure how much we'll hear about the aftermath.