Hurricane Katrina

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by Ranger_of_Gondor, Sep 2, 2005.

  1. Ranger_of_Gondor

    Ranger_of_Gondor Gondorian Defender

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Messages:
    2,091
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Massachusets(The mostly Anti-Bush state. Hooray!)
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0
    I'm surprised nobody has started a thread on this, but I think we all know what happened in New Orleans.

    www.comcast.net has plenty of articles on the situation.
     
  2. CupofDice

    CupofDice Gamabunta

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    Messages:
    177
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Re: Katrina

    This was the worst planning for a Hurricane in the US ever. Every single person inside the city should have been evacuated before it hit. At least the aid is there now, though it it messed up to see it dropped in like in a third world country.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2005
  3. Sir Frost

    Sir Frost Guest

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    New Orleans is under water and part of Mississippi too. They need our help. I already donated $127 to the red cross. There are still people think nothing is going on to save them I have seen videos of poor people whose house is gone. Please Reply.
     
  4. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,705
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    West Australia
    Ratings:
    +186 / 1 / -0
    Re: Hurrican Katrina

    I've merged the 2 Hurricane Katrina threads to avoid clutter and double posting.

    From the outside (Australia) looking in - man, that seems to be the worst reaction time and most poorly executed "relief" program I've ever seen in a modern western country. The had ample warning of Hurricane Katrina. They could have evacuated more people, had more supplies and personnel standing by, could have commandeered more buses to evacuate people, etc etc. What a disgrace. No one is saying that relief for a disaster of this scale would be quick or easy, but it just seems totally inept.

    On a separate note, someone once said something like "Humanity is only 3 meals away from reverting to animal behaviour." I think we've seen this displayed quite clearly. Within a day or two, people were looting non-essential things like tvs, dvd players, microwaves etc. There have been shots fired at rescue workers, killings, beatings, rapes etc. For god's sake, I heard that a boy and a girl under 10 years old were both raped in the big stadium.

    I've argued in different threads that humans are still animals, and that the thin veneer of civilisation we use to cover our basic animal instincts and inate barbaric behaviour disappears very quickly once the power goes out. Can anyone seriously argue against that now that we've seen it in a modenr, western, democratic nation? This ain't some corrupt African nation with coups and militia everywhere. This is America.

    Let's hope that the emergency and relief agencies get their sh** together asap and help those people.

    Has anyone heard an estimate on when, or if, it will be before New Orleans is ever livable again? How many years are we talking?
     
  5. Evils Dark Master

    Evils Dark Master He's Ba'ack...

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Messages:
    3,838
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    The Dark Stygian.
    Ratings:
    +19 / 0 / -0
    Re: Hurrican Katrina

    Hey Mub did you see Sunrise this morning?

    Koshy almost had the US ambasador in tears with his questions, and demands on why no one was being allowed to to look for non US citizen. The channel 7 news crew the area is only source of information and the only people looking for the missing Aussies. The guy left utterly speachless.
     
  6. CupofDice

    CupofDice Gamabunta

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    Messages:
    177
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Re: Hurrican Katrina

    I did not read anything about no one being able to look for non US citizens, and these links seem to say that foreign consuls have been looking with success.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4214326.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4212684.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/4212792.stm
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1452781.htm
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1452883.htm
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1452677.htm

    Maybe you mean this http://seven.com.au/news/topstories/104955 . If so then I do not see the problem.
     
  7. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,705
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    West Australia
    Ratings:
    +186 / 1 / -0
    Re: Hurrican Katrina

    Evil, no I only get to see ~15 minutes of Sunrise before leaving for work, didn't see the US ambassador. Would have been very interesting to see.

    Yeah Cup, it probably wouldn't make the news in the USA, but consular staff from foreign countries have been banned from entering New Orleans to try and locate and extract their countrymen. It makes sense, seeing as they want to get people out, not let more people in. However, to these stranded tourists, it seems to them like they've been abandoned and that their government doesn't care. But you can't go ingoring a country's wishes and sending in your own troops. I believe that's called "declaring war & invading."

    Foreign journalists have been finding, rescuing and interviewing Aussies from New Orleans, and they're bringing with them stories of seeing rapes and beatings and killings. I'm just glad they're getting out okay.

    It's just been a debacle on many different levels. Perhaps US emergency divisions have been running too amyn terrorist scenarios and neglecting the more mundane (but probably more likely) natural disaster scenarios?
     
  8. Elynnya

    Elynnya Elynnya

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2004
    Messages:
    627
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    No point. America is probably the richest nation in the world with all the supplies they need. They just need to work out how they are going to get the supplies there and get the people out.
     
  9. Sir Frost

    Sir Frost Guest

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Re: Hurrican Katrina

    Don't be like that anyway our president isn't giving any money to it instead he's telling everyone to help. He is still rising gas prices anyway.
     
  10. Skyanide

    Skyanide The Big Meanie Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    7,025
    Likes Received:
    76
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +77 / 0 / -0
    Re: Hurrican Katrina

    What are you talking about? The region will be getting plenty of federal aid money.

    Right now it is more of a logistical problem (trying to get food and shelter in safely) than it is a money problem.

    And "he" isn't rising gas prices at all, that is exactly the opposite of what "he" wants. The US will be in a major recession if the gas prices stay as high as it is right now.
     
  11. Bard

    Bard Erchamion

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Messages:
    4,874
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Marietta, GA
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    Re: Hurrican Katrina

    Half of the gas stations around where I live have literally no gas whatsoever.
     
  12. Sir Frost

    Sir Frost Guest

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Re: Hurrican Katrina

    Well if you don't live in Partyville then maybe you don't know and gas prices did rise.
     
  13. Skyanide

    Skyanide The Big Meanie Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    7,025
    Likes Received:
    76
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +77 / 0 / -0
    Re: Hurrican Katrina

    THAT is why gas prices are high, because ATM supply of refined gasoline trails demand.

    Demand dictates commodity prices.

    On top of the oil companies gouging, of course.
     
  14. Sir Frost

    Sir Frost Guest

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Re: Hurrican Katrina

    If you meant the effect of supply and demand then i agree.
     
  15. CupofDice

    CupofDice Gamabunta

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    Messages:
    177
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Re: Hurrican Katrina

    Bush has already given 10.5 billion dollars and will give more. And gas prices rise and fall with oil demand. Bush has as much control as those who buy gas.

    Look, America is use to hurricanes hitting us every year. The problem is they usually only hit Florida, so we were unprepared for New Orleans though the geniuses in our government definitely had enough warning. Hurricanes our no different from our regularly tornadoes, thunderstorms, snowstorms, earthquakes, and wildfires. The government was simply and truly under prepared, but they are doing everything to help right now, and the situation is a lot better than a few days before. It is amazing reading foreign press, and hearing Hurricane Katrina as a call to sign Kyoto (though I am not necessary against that), a punishment to our corrupt capitalist systemcorrupt capitalist system , a sign to our arrogance . It is interesting when natural disasters hit Iran or Asia, and we give aid that our newspapers do not just go on a critique of every single thing about the country we are helping.
     
  16. Skyanide

    Skyanide The Big Meanie Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    7,025
    Likes Received:
    76
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +77 / 0 / -0
    Re: Hurrican Katrina

    CoD, see, isn't an education wonderful?
     
  17. kartaron

    kartaron Hunter / Gatherer

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,287
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0
    Re: Hurrican Katrina


    About gas prices: Louisiana is the fifth largest state in refining oil, the eighth in storage of oil. The state refineries produced 2,772,723 Barrels Per Calendar Day ... see here: http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/state/la.html That oil is no longer accessible and the refineries are inoperable either due to water or the fact that the workers are scattered all over the country now. Besides that, people rushed the gas stations as soon as the prices started going up. Gas station owners were reporting that they were selling a weeks supply in half a day. When you increase demand and decrease supply this is what happens.

    In the most recent study of profit per gallon, oil company profits amounted to an estimated 7.3 cents on each gallon sold.1 This estimate represents an industry average, but a multitude of factors can affect an individual oil company's profit on gasoline sales.

    Profitability factors include the efficiency of the firm's refining, distribution and marketing system, as well as its source of raw material. In times of rising oil prices, companies that own and produce a considerable portion of the crude oil used in their refineries may benefit more than other companies that must purchase most or all of their supplies on the open market.

    Crude oil generally represents the single greatest cost component of gasoline, which explains why gasoline prices rise and fall so quickly with changes in the world price of crude oil. As an international commodity, crude oil is bought and sold 24 hours a day, so its price is changing constantly. In the matter of a day or two, crude oil prices can move up or down by several dollars, depending upon supply and demand factors.

    In general, crude oil accounts for roughly half of gasoline's price. Other expenses include refining, distribution (pipelines and tanker trucks) and marketing (service stations and convenience stores). When gasoline reaches the pump, another major factor comes into play - federal, state and local taxes, which average 20 percent to 30 percent of the pump price. The federal tax is 18.4 cents per gallon, while state taxes vary from 14 cents to nearly 33 cents per gallon.

    Traditionally, oil companies have trailed many other industries in this measure of profitability. The profit margin of oil and natural gas companies was slightly above that of all industry average in the third quarter of 2004. However, the industry's profitability remained below the profit margins of many other industries, including banking, financial services, pharmaceuticals, insurance and computer software and services.


    About the levees:
    AP
    Lt. Gen. Carl Strock, Corps of Engineers commander, said some flooding would have occurred even if the remaining repair projects planned for the levees had been completed. The infrastructure around the city was designed to withstand only a Category 3.

    The infrastructure assumed that a storm bigger than a Category 3 has a very low probability of occurring.

    When the project was designed about 30 years ago, the corps believed it was protecting the city from an event that might occur only every 200 or 300 years.

    "We had an assurance that 99.5 percent this would be OK. We, unfortunately, have had that .5 percent activity here," Strock said.


    About comparing this to the Tsunami relief:

    Three days after the Tsunami, food and water were still on the tarmac because roads to the refugees were blocked. Much of the aid to these countries never even made it to the people as is the case in Malaysia. The fact is that it takes time to manage an effort this size and grandstanding by local politicians doesnt help.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2005
  18. curunir's bane

    curunir's bane Kwisatch Haderach

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,253
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    baton rouge
    Ratings:
    +14 / 0 / -0
  19. Elynnya

    Elynnya Elynnya

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2004
    Messages:
    627
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    Re: Hurrican Katrina

    You could have all the money and resouces in the world but it doesn't matter becuase you still have to get that resources in there which is the trouble for the last week.
     
  20. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,705
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    West Australia
    Ratings:
    +186 / 1 / -0
    I'm sure people will start criticising "why didn't they build bigger stronger levees." I'm a big fan of over-engineering, just in case (hey, I drive a Volvo!) but Joe Taxpayer isn't going to want to shell out the extra cost of building a better mousetrap on the off chance of something like this happening. Statistics always play a part in determining the level of planning for potential disasters. 99.5% sounds pretty good to me. Unfortunately, when the 0.5% hits, you're in big trouble.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2005