How much has Euro changed your life?

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Foinikas, Nov 1, 2007.

  1. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    We'll agree to disagree on some points :)

    I'd agree with the Belgian system comments, although it would be very painful for some countries if introduced. Personally, I think the UK joining the Euro is further away than ever.

    My forecast for Greece situation ~ there'll be a bailout but unless it comes with draconian spending cuts it will prove little more than a sticky plaster before Greek bonds are hit again and the Euro sold. The speculators will test another weak spot regardless, which I'd predict will be Italy not Spain. If that happens the Euro mettle will certainly be tested.
     
  2. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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  3. Árëlin Milloway

    Árëlin Milloway Toast Tiger

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    The GBP being under pressure, however, makes my four years of study in the UK appear quite a bit more affordable. :D

    Personally, I've barely noticed any difference since the Euro was introduced. Only that there's less bother with exchanging money when travelling in mainland Europe. (I do wish, however, that Norway was a part of the EU. My school fees as an international student in the Uk rather than an EU-member are ten times as much! And all for that stupid fish of ours. *grumble*)
     
  4. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    Really? 10x? That's harsh, particularly as we like Norwegians :D


    Your post does however point out one of the benefits of being outside the Euro, namely exchange rate flexibility used as part of monetary policy to allow the economy to flex, an option not available to Greece.
     
  5. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    Oooh I saw a segment on last night's news about Greece's debt being 4 times the Euro-allowed limit. Not good....
     
  6. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Before the elections we had the current ruling party,the "socialist" party of Greece promise money here and there and money money money for this and that and the other thing etc.
    And the other parties were asking "Where are you gonna find that extra billion Euros?"

    And now we know.Taxes here and there and more taxes and more taxes.One of the problems is also that our governments have corrupted politicians who first care about ensuring property and money(luxury)for their future and their families' and then caring about the country and the common good.

    And then...our governments love to spend money "donated" for practically enemy countries like Turkey,FYROM,Albania helping them with THEIR economy while we're in trouble :S

    Can you imagine this?They spent amounts of thousands of Euro for a FYROM library!
    They spent money to support Albania's economy! :confused:

    Before Euro something used to cost 100 drachmas now it is rounded up to almost 3 times more.
     
  7. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    lol - a bit about Greece's problems right now:

    The debt of the Greek economy is something like 115% of GDP. There used to be a rule which said that everything above 100% would be catastrophic - but we've been proven wrong on that - Japan floats around the 200% mark these days.

    So, some past gouvernments in Greece haven't watched their spending enough; what Foin said, really. They simply spent money that was never there - and never was going to be there either. I understood that some of these deficits were kept outside the books. Either way, the deficit is now around 13% of GDP anually; a large chunk of this goes to interests on the debts. Since the Greek situation has become unstable, the risk - and thus interest on new loans - is higher then average, only worsening the situation. The gouvernment now sets out to lower the deficit to 9% of GDP; which is still enormous.

    Now, unless the Greek economy will boom (increasing the GDP and thus lowering interest on loans), 9% is still much too high to ward of a bankrupcy (in effect, the situation in which the Greek gouvernment cannot attract money, since the risk or interest is too high). Now, under the current circumstances, the outlook on the Greek economy isn't such that a boom is to be expected. Which means that it has already been 12 o'clock in Greece. And the European Union recognises this now.

    It appears to me that, although the Greek gouvernment is edging towards acceptation of this situation, the Greek population hasn't. There is a great tradition of unions and strikes in Greece - as they have showing off in the past few weeks. As the tradition stands in Greece, this may well limit further recovery. We haven't seen the last of this...
     
  8. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Yup.Like you said it unions and syndicates coordinate frequently to make demonstrations and start long strikes.Like the situation had been until a few days ago,the farmers had started their infamous "blockades" again like they usually do every winter.They just take their tractors and block major highways,roads and junctions as a protest to the government however frustrating everyone else in the country.

    I don't know how much of an effect this will have in our economy(let's put the society factor aside for now)but the government is preparing to give the greek citizenship to about 500,000
    immigrants in the very near future.

    And this isn't just a now thing.PASOK,the current ruling party has done that in the past in order to gain votes.And they did gain votes,they attracted all the immigrants or illegal immigrants from ex-soviet union countries and albanians,many supposed to be ethnic greeks others not even close to greek and made it able for them to vote and they did vote.

    But now that you mentioned loans,I have to tell you that people here are up to the neck with loans.And the banks won't stop advertising loans and even calling people at home to talk to them about loans.And lots of people being naive or not,take MANY loans,for everything you can imagine!

    You know what was the habit of the politicians here?When a "package" of money arrived from the EU every now and then for public works and help,like roddens,politicians,ministers,parliament members and their rich friends always got big parts of the "pie" through scams and other ways.It's a policy of making the rich richer and the poor poorer no matter if it's a socialist or centre-right government.

    Which by the way isn't too much different since for about 30 years we've been ruled by these 2 parties: PASOK and New Democracy.
     
  9. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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    The longer the strikes and government inaction continue the harder the hammer of financial reality will fall.

    Taking on/underwriting Greek debt whether by Eurozone, EC, or IMF is just breathing space, not a solution. The only solution is a combination of huge public spending cuts, taxation increases and stimulating real economic growth. These in turn will decrease the rates demanded by holders of Greek sovereign debts which will cut the cost of servicing it. Handouts by other nations to compensate for the lack of domestic belt tightening is a big no-no.

    $8billion in one week 'bet' by traders and hedge funds that the Euro will fall in value is one hell of a short position to hold against a major currency.
     
  10. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    One more thing I wanted to say is that on the contrary to every other European Union member,Greece has a gigantic military expenditures(compared to its size and population due to the whole situation with Turkey.And Turkey although suffers from this expenditure problem as well as we do,they have a bigger population and can sustain a much larger army and weapons.

    The whole situation,similar to the India-Pakistan rivalry thing or the USA-USSR arms race during the cold war era,has been making us spend billions of Euro in acquiring new military equipment,upgrading or even mainting the current weapons of all branches that we have.

    -Greece is to acquire 7 frigates from France,though we are already in an economic crisis.
    -Greece (from what a friend told me today)is to buy M109(or something like that)artillery from Germany plus some submarines from them.If we actually buy any German submarines.

    So we are indebted,we are going through an economic crisis and we take even more loans to buy stuff that are actually little or non at all needed.Whatever we buy,the Turks buy 2 or 3 times more.

    This has been going on for decades but nowadays it's even worse.Because high-tech equipment require LOTS OF MONEY to maintain it :p
     
  11. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    Yes, it seems to me that the Greeks and Turks still don't understand that the military spenditure is totally lost. In the current political situation in the region, war is ruled out. Despite history.

    Still, I am curious - how would you imagine Greece will pull itself from this economic situation?
     
  12. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    I have no idea.More packages from EU?More loans?I don't know.Our governments will find some solution,not benefiting the common people much like always but will try to persuade us that everything is ok :p
     
  13. Window Bar

    Window Bar "We Read for Light"

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    At least the Euro has done better than the Dollar. Thanks to the disastrous deficit-budget wars and boondogles, prices have basically escalated by a factor of 10 since the early 70s. I'd love to return to Europe (I've traveled there three times), but it's begun to exceed the ol' Window Bar Budget ... where deficit spending is not an option
     
  14. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Did you see the new cover of Focus? :D