How do the Sith feel disturbances and is there a hell in the Star Wars galaxy?

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by Cascador, Jun 29, 2008.

  1. JIM

    JIM zombie Turncoat

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    assuming you are correct, as you probably are, what of the jedi ability to read minds, would vaders will be strong enough to shield his mind from his master? would not the half truth be better spoken than an outright lie.
    and to the defence of the station. i believe tarkin was in charge of the death star, though vader took personal responsibility by leading a squadron of fighters personally out to meet the attacking bombers.
     
  2. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    It's a good question if he could shield his thoughts. He did probably think so that he could. Cause he lied to the Emperor later in the Holo-transmission in question here. Or at least he pretended. He acted like he never heard of Luke before. Well that is again debatable. What is being lied about. What is being kept hidden. A lot, like Vader's plan to rule with Luke and kill the Emperor. Likely the Emperor had his suspicions, however knowing that Vader was still up to this, he must have thought that he could shield his thoughts and emotions from his master.
     
  3. JIM

    JIM zombie Turncoat

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    therebye disrupting his masters perception of the force and clouding his vision. i tend to agree. luke is able to shield the thoughts of his sister whilever he keeps his mind busy, and he is untrained in the intricacies of the force. it is safe to assume that vader, with years of jedi training and his time as a sift lord, would be more profficient in this. i concede the point to you.
     
  4. dragonfly

    dragonfly Natures little helicopter

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    Greetings all,
    Haven't read the whole thread but I get the jist and would like to add. First let me say hell is a myth! That clarifies that! At least for me. Hey what's a midichlorian? This is a particle which facilitates interface with a field. The greater the concentration of particles, the more intimate is the interface. It's like an antenna to the brain. There is no good or bad about it, it's like electricity and it's the bad guys that draw to much from the grid by wiping out good guys so less good stuff happens and it's the nature of their interface which determines whether or not one will be able to communicate with padawans and the like after death. There's like an out of phaseness between good and evil in the force maybe when it comes to some of the differences but there's more dimensions to it than there are in anything we know of. Here's an e.g. If someone was trying to read your thaughts and you have so many midichloria that it sends a chill up your spine, you could perceive of it and instantly but unwittingly transmit an out of phase signal which cancels any "disturbance" you may be experiencing. You don't think to transmit a frequency, you just think/feel your way around it. It's like a thaught depends on electrical impulses even when you're not thinking about electricity!! In that sense it's like your mind extends throughout the universe or, if you want to think about it the other way around, everything within the universe is enveloped by your mind!

    Have a nice day.
     
  5. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Well that's a nice explanation, but it's not exactly correct. Midi-Chlorians does define your strength, but to call it energy? The energy still comes from the Force itself, not from the Midi-Chlorians. The amount of them defines how well you are connected to the Force. Thus if you're connection is stronger you will know better how to sense, react, figth etc. That leaves the question how Sith use their Midi-Chlorians. If they speak to you, telling you the Will of the Force, what purpose do the Midi-Chlorians have, if they neglect the Will of the Force? Well I can't write much more, cause it's getting late...
     
  6. dragonfly

    dragonfly Natures little helicopter

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    As I said, the midi-chlorians "facilitate the interface " between the body and the power. They aren't the power.
    It's a matte of frame of mind as to what the effect the midi-chlorians have on you when you perceive the force through them. If you're tired and weak you may be easily manipulated. If you're strong you will withstand.
     
  7. Kelmourne

    Kelmourne The Savage Hippy

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    I say what the hell all the time and I don't believe it exists. This is what I think was going on when han said hell.
     
  8. dragonfly

    dragonfly Natures little helicopter

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    Well nutshelled. And indeed, Solo is a skeptic. He's not likley to be casting quotable religous assertions is he!
     
  9. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Lol, no. I guess it just a stupid line, nothing more to think about it. Still I was curious if there was something in EU about other religions. (Don't think there is Christianity in the SW galaxy, or Islam..... Budhism maybe....)
    About the Midi-Chlorians. What you say is interesting and seems to be correct, though there seem to be a few holes in your theory. It's still a question how the Sith use their Midi-Chlorians. I think I know the answer, but I do question if the Force is a conciouss being, why does it allow a communication between the midi-chlorians the Sith have and the Force itself. Maybe there is an actual Dark Side after all, which the Force has not really control over. I think we are getting too scientific about it. It's suppose to be a mystery. Midi-Chlorians talk to the Sith too. And the only thing we can know for sure is that they do tell the Will of the Force to the Sith too, however they ignore it, unlike the Jedi.
     
  10. JIM

    JIM zombie Turncoat

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    i believe the midi-chlorians in the sith act in accordance with the wishes of the sith, bending the force to do the will of the force user. jedi on the otherhand, allow the force to flow from them. thus we get the same result from two different schools. sith warp. jedi flow
     
  11. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    I'm not sure about that, cause it works in both ways. They are symbiotic creatures, so if the Sith only use the midi-chlorians, I think they would be weaker. It works both ways. The Force controls your actions, but it partially obeys your commands, as Obi-Wan said. So if the Sith only command the Force, they wouldn't be able to take advantage of the Force controlling their action, which would make their connection to the Force weaker.
     
  12. JIM

    JIM zombie Turncoat

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    yes, but is an easier connection to the force as yoda said... "quicker, more seductive", this would allow the sith to become stronger, quicker, learning to channel the force through their emotions
     
  13. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Yes through passion they gain strength. However, that passion has to be linked with the Force too, in its full potential. From a certain point of view (sorry, couldn't resist) the Jedi also rely on their passion for their strength. The difference is that the Jedi are at peace with their emotions. The issue with not being in harmony with them is that what makes you impulsive and rely on other powers that make it easier for them. So yes maybe the passion of the Sith is maybe stronger than the Jedi, so that maybe means that their stronger passion makes them also stronger in the Force
     
  14. dragonfly

    dragonfly Natures little helicopter

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    It all sounds good to me. If I get a bit scientific it's because I'm a scientist (to use the term loosley) and solving mysteries is my thing.:D (not that I'm particularly good at it, just that it's what I'm best at!)
     
  15. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Well I'm not a scientist myself, but I guess I am a bit in these cases, such as SW. Not everything can be explained cause it's still fantasy, but you try of course lol. About the Force it is interesting to study, but yeah the Midi-Chlorians spoilt it a bit for many fans. The invention of them took a bit of mystery away from the Force. The idea of a mystical energy force, was always what made people curious about its existence. What was the Force? How did it work? Even the Force Phantoms were a mystery, which was also slightly explained in the last movie how you could get immortality in the Force. You join the Force. You become part of it. Sort of like heaven of course. But due training you can keep your appearance, rather than being just energy. We don't know extacly what you become, if you join the Force, if you can't train yourself to keep your appearance as a Force Phantom. Though many questions have been answered, we still don't know everything. Which is good cause it gives fans the chance to speculate.
     
  16. dragonfly

    dragonfly Natures little helicopter

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    Here's a neat theory on how the force "lives"! As I said before, it's like having your mind extended throughout the universe or like the universe is enveloped by your mind. But it's like, the universe is a mind, like a subconsciousness and the matter within it, by which it is bound, to the perpetually expanding outermost reaches of light and even the light it's self... are the mechanics of it.

    WO! Heavy.
     
  17. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    The Force is indeed like a mind of itself. I always knew that. That's why refer to it as the 'Will of the Force'. If the Force was just an energy field, it wouldn't be concious I guess. But the fact that it has a will of it's own does prove its intelligence. Though I don't see it as highly intelligent. I always saw it more that the Force has an instinct about what is right and wrong and tries to keep that in balance by its Will. That is why I said that the disturbances are strange for Sith to feel, cause if this right, it should prove also that the Force doesn't have total control of its own energy. As was said, it controls your actions, but partially obeys your commands. So I'm still questionning that if the Force is concious how it allows the Sith to use the Force. Meaning why does the Force obey the Sith's commands if what they do is against the Will of the Force, that is if it really is against its will, cause Vader's downfall wasn't against its Will imo.
     
  18. dragonfly

    dragonfly Natures little helicopter

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    This is why I say it's like a subconsciousness. It controlls your consciousness but can also be controlled by the consciousness. A lot depends on what the conscious mind does with the subconscious thaughts. See, even Luke was overcome by his subconscious desire for vengance when he cut off vaders hand. It was the right decision for Luke to not finish the job but any other Jedi would have been well justified in killing him and without subconscious remorse. The guy was BAD. It's highly dependant on the individual. I'm sure of it!!!
     
  19. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Well what you say about Luke is true. However it wasn't his conciousness alone that stopped him. It was also the love of his father. It's just when his father threatened his sister that Luke forgot about that. His sister was from a higher priority to him, which made him choose the easy path, to defeat Vader. About Vader being bad. Not disagreeing with you, but in the Jedi's eyes the guy was bad, evil. But the Jedi's point of view was as biased as the one's of the Sith. Another think I agree with what Palpatine said to Anakin, that being of the Jedi and the Sith being more similar. They were both flawed. That is why a revolution had to start, to wipe out everything and start over again. Another reason why I think Anakin's downfall to the Dark Side was planned by the Force.
     
  20. dragonfly

    dragonfly Natures little helicopter

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    To my way of thinking, the force didn't plan Anakins downfall. There was probably a bad feeling in the force about that time and space, when/where he was conceived and grew up, like a storm in the force with the eye miraculously focusing to effect his conception. This "storm" is caused by the siths, not by the force but in return, it causes the force to "think happy thoughts" in order to neutralise the disturbance. This will have an equal and opposite effect in another part of the universe. In this case it took a generation for the happy thoughts to effect Luke and lead him on his way. But there again, the force didn't plan Lukes actions, he just "caught the wave." But I also think that the force would have had no control if Luke had gone to the dark side. It would just cause a bigger disturbance which would in turn, eventually be countered by another similar disturbance and result in neutrality.

    There can be no other explaination!! Surley!