homosexuality in textbooks (studying literature)

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by anonymous, Apr 14, 2013.

  1. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    as some of you know, Latvia is kind of a religious country, so recently there is this big argument where one of the poets work was forbid from textbooks because he stated that there is nothing wrong with being homosexual and urged people who felt that way to open up; and indirect quote "at first I enjoyed the freedom of truth, because I felt those lies killing me second by second, and when I said it I felt like flying; I have not felt wore alive in ages" (it was a novel) The poet(novelist not sure what to call him) is a young kid (18); a good writer he won several scholarships and etc.
    The reason because they forbid to published this in textbooks is because kids have to find out by themself in what to believe or in what to be. (the audience was meant for 9-12 grade (12 being last one);
    The argument is so huge because most of famous writers/poets talk about homosexuality in their work, and they are not forbid, so the argument is all out now, why some is good, and some is bad. ( At the works currently published in schools the homosexual part is "taken out" censored)

    So the topic is this - Should homosexuality be censored form textbooks?

    I think that - no; I thinking that censoring it will not make a slightest change in how one feels; i have read books which had homosexuality in them; heck I even saw broke back mountain - and still I am not a homosexual...
     
  2. Stormborn

    Stormborn Well-Known Member

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    Of course it shouldn't be censored.
     
  3. Druid of Lûhn

    Druid of Lûhn The Little Lamb.

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    Censoring will not help: if someone feels that way it will come out in the end.
     
  4. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    Yea...but they think that people are stupid and, I truly believe it`s just because they don`t want to have problems with it..


    there is a huge movement that tries to make '"Religion study" obligatory for 1 - 7 grade -_-.
     
  5. Stormborn

    Stormborn Well-Known Member

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    Help what exactly?
     
  6. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    I think he meant it will not change a thing :p
     
  7. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    well the obvious answer is: no censorship! Reading about birds doesn't enable me to fly, so reading about homosexuality won't make me homosexual.

    As for those "religion studies" you mentioned: We have that in germany, it's mandatory for grades 1-12 (at least in bavaria. In some other states you can get rid of it after 10th grade) and that hasn't harmed me either. In fact we learned about christianity (of course) about Islam, Judaism, Hinduism and Bhuddism. We also had to learn the ten commandments (admittedly) but that neither makes me a worse person, nor a better catholic. I am in fact as close to catholicism as I was in 1st grade: not very close at all.
    The thing is though, you can elect one out of 3 possible religion classes: Either Catholic religion class, Protestant religion class or Ethics class (for atheists or people from other religions) - depending on what your parents or you yourself believe in.
    And I really think it helps to be informed about religion in general. If you grow up learning about other peoples beliefs, you probably won't end up overly judgmental
     
  8. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    But here all the Faculties (like ministry of education ) is - "children have to learn on their own, in what to believe" and I was giving a comparosment of the irony in this decision to censor homosexuality.But I guess it would not hurt to know about religion to oppose it better :D
     
  9. Emelie

    Emelie Queen of darkness

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    oh my, I can't even believe that many countries still have debates like that. Of course homosexuality shouldnt be cencored.. its the same as "well we should cencor all black people's text".. = makes no sense.

    Gay people are like you and me and everyone else. And gay is not something you automatically turn into just cause you happen to read a text or watch a movie. It's something you are either born with, or that happens at a very young age, and can't really be affected by anything. No matter how people try to raise their kids straight, and the whole society does the same thing with the heterosexual norm, people still turn gay. It's a natural thing and people need to stop being so scared of it.
     
  10. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    on that 2nd state meant I disagree(there is no proof that it is natural), but this not a discussion about it ;)
     
  11. Emelie

    Emelie Queen of darkness

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    Well why wouldnt it be, we have it, the animal kingdom have it. Animals arent exactly affected by social norms and other things.
     
  12. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    but the animal kingdom is based on different rules, and the homosexuality in animal kingdom has lots of researches , that prove that homosexuality in animal kingdom is either based on lack of opposite sex partners or the "fight" for them is to risky.

    Or it is very - how to say - situational
     
  13. Stormborn

    Stormborn Well-Known Member

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    Bless you Emelie.

    And also. Who can decide what's natural or not. We do so called unnatural things all the time without it being a problem so why should homosexuality be a problem.
     
  14. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    I am not saying that it is a problem - but it`s wrong to call it natural truth to be told, because whats the point of sex if you can`t reproduce - the basic survival mechanism of nature - reproduce. Every living thing is "programmed" (by Evolution )by this code to reproduce.

    (I think I need to say this - I have nothing against homosexuals, I think that they are human above all, so they should have same rules, same right as others do..)

    But calling homosexuality natural is simply not right (if it`s not periodical or situational)
     
  15. Emelie

    Emelie Queen of darkness

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    Well I think its more than that really. Female orgasms arent really there for reproduction purposes... and.. well.. we could go into a conversation about reproduction and everything.. but maybe we shouldnt
     
  16. anonymous

    anonymous the king

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    That what I said at first ;)
     
  17. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    It is is know that homosexuality reduces reproductive success, but that doesn't mean it's unnatural. I mean how many times did I have sex without actually impregnating a woman (thank god! lol). Does that mean I had sex in an unnatural way? It's the same basic idea for homosexuals. They have sex without actually impregnating someone. Having sex in their own way is like grooming, making love in their own way. It might not seem natural to you, but it feel perfectly normal to them. Who says the purpose of homosexuality is not to maintain the population? I remembering Padmé talking of a small island where all these large elephants were, so in order to survive they were really reduced in size in order to survive as the island was just too small for them. So homosexuality could have been created for a similar purpose and that is to reduce the population.

    And if we are going to talk about the unnatural. Animals like the Platypus IS a mammal, but actually lays eggs... That indeed is not natural, or is it? lol
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2013
  18. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    That is incorrect.
    We are the only beasts in the Animal Kingdom that have an expanded imagination, are able to think in the abstract and have a contextual awareness of reality. Our capacity to imagine the world around us and our place in it so outstrips the rest of the animal kingdom that it makes little sense to compare something as intricate, and messy, as human sexuality to most other animals... at least as a behavioral anomaly. For humans, sex is not simply about reproducing and evolutionary programming. The reproductive model for a pride of lions doesn't apply to humanity.

    I just don't get it when people say homosexuality isn't a part of our natural state and forward their argument by quoting evolutionary science. The very fact that homosexuality can be driven by genetics means that evolution has spoken loud and clear, homosexuality is in our nature! We may not know the reasons behind it, but it's there in the works.

    You ask "what's the point of sex if you can't reproduce"... I'm sorry, but that is an absurd question when it comes to human beings and even many other animals who survive quite well with homosexuals among their ranks. Indeed, in some species homosexual and bisexual behavior is engrained. What you are in fact saying is that Natural Selection cannot explain homosexuality... that is a myth and just plain bullshit. Evolution is not nearly that tidy or direct, nor does it work that way. I'm going to bust another evolutionary myth... "evolution promotes the survival of species". Dead wrong. Evolution often leads to extinction.

    First thing to do, is ask yourself why is it that gene driven, biologically produced homosexuality is so common? Gene variants that cause homosexual behavior might also have other more subtle benefits to our species... gay men and women may spend more time looking after the offspring of heterosexual brothers and sisters... this is called "kin selection", promoting your own genes in the bodies of others. Homosexuality may enhance the group's ability to reproduce and be successful. A sort of genetically induced sacrifice.
     
  19. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    The jury is still out on female orgasms... if a woman can achieve an orgasm (and they always do with me, even when they fake it) than they'll be more likely to have sex, and of course that ups the odds considerably for reproducing. Also, the female orgasm bonds the woman emotionally to her mate, which again would seem to enhance the possibility of having babies. And the contractions of orgasm might help the sperm along... though I'm not certain there's any science that supports that.
     
  20. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    I don't agree with censoring stuff written about homosexuality for kids. If you censor it, kids are going to think it's abnormal or something that is harmful to them or to others. In my opinion this issue should be discussed matter-of-factly with kids: this is the way of the world and it isn't a big deal. Censoring is just going to make it seem like a big issue or problem. I also agree with many opinions here that you can't become homosexual by reading about homosexuality or reading stuff written by homosexuals. In light of that, censoring that kind of stuff makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.