Homeopathy - beneficial or useless?

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Mububban, Aug 4, 2011.

  1. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,705
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    West Australia
    Ratings:
    +186 / 1 / -0
    I consider myself a science-based person. I like evidence and logic. Previously I knew nothing about homeopathy, but have recently heard about it, read a bit about it, and find it to be ridiculous and fraudulent. Many studies have shown it is no more effective than the placebo effect. And the UK, which has been a massive market for homeopathy, have now stated:

    The full article is here: http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/features/online/4587/diluted-logic


    This wouldn't be so bad if taxpayer money wasn't being funneled into it. And the sheer financial markup of the sugar pills used as homeopathic "tablets" is criminal.

    I found this site an interesting read: http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/homeopathy.htm


    So....does anybody here have an opinion? Do you use it or know someone who does? Has it been a waste of time and money or has it really helped someone you know? I have no personal experience with it but the more I read, the more my bull**** alarm goes off.
     
  2. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,784
    Likes Received:
    162
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Not in Amsterdam :)
    Ratings:
    +189 / 0 / -0
    Homeopathy is a tax on ignorance :)

    What bothers me is the sort of trust homeopathy gets compared to the pharmaceutical industry. The pharmaceutical industry is often mistrusted, depsite all the research they put into their products and the stricter and stricter regulation that surrounds it. No industry is so closely watched as the pharmaceutical industry. Bar none. It's hard to find the core of the mistrust; their taste for profit, side effects, the general mistrust for chemicals or just maybe the few scandals which the industry had to endure. So people look for alternatives. And homeopathy, among others, provides that.

    Although homeopathy wouldn't stand any of the scrutiny the pharmaceutical companies do, they seem to get a remarkable level of trust. Even though no proof exsists that it actually works. Even though homeopathy depends on poisons (though not in the consentration to be poisonous). The trust put in homeopathy seems to be completely random. Even though it has no credit to show for it. And those companies meddling with this quackery must know this... which makes them no better, if not worse than the pharmaceutical companies.

    Homeopathy is one of the most researched of the alternative medicine. And it has been debunked on many occasions. Continued trust is, in fact, a form of magical thinking.
     
  3. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,537
    Likes Received:
    232
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +342 / 1 / -0
    I think the thing is Heomeopathy hasn't got a bad track record - there aren't any cases of mass deaths or illness following treatment like the regular medical industry has. It's also generally presented more as a "natural" and smallscale remedy not a big "evil" company blind to all else but profit. Add to that the many claims of people who have felt like they recovered as a result of the treatment and you have a medical option that isn't marred with a black past and not openly linked to big companies and men in white coats.

    The other side is marketing, its had a boatload of marketing behind it and thus that creates a massive placebo effect on many - and within a group people feel safe so it self supports itself.


    Placebo is something medically valid, however Homeopathy appears to have cornered a bigger slice of the market than it really should have based upon its solid facts. However as it stands I can see why it is popular, even if it only provides a destressing aspect in support of regular medication. The problem is when people take this destressing and placebo medication when they are in need of support from direct and more proven medical options. The two should go hand in hand and then I've no problem with the investment (de-stressing is important - esp when someone is ill and maybe spending long hours/days in medical facilities).
     
  4. psychotick

    psychotick New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2011
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Rotorua, New Zealand
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Hi,

    Homeopathy is quackery, pure and simple. It doesn't work. All the wasted time spent studying it has come to that conclusion. There is no scientific reason why it could even be expected to work. And its only safe because the 'drug' that you get at the end is pure water. I suppose if you took enough of it you could drown. The down side of it is that it takes money out of the pockets of people who could benefit more from spending it on a movie and a meal out, and sometimes homeopaths advocate against traditional medicine and vaccination.

    Cheers.
     
  5. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,705
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    West Australia
    Ratings:
    +186 / 1 / -0
    Love it

    homeo.jpg


    Also this video is hilariously accurate

     
  6. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Messages:
    3,523
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    Can someone explain to me exactly what this is. I did a bit of googling but I'm still a bit confused by it all.
     
  7. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,537
    Likes Received:
    232
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +342 / 1 / -0
    They basically take a tiny tiny portion of something and water it down a heck of a lot to the point where its into parts per million or smaller and then give that to you as a cure. It's mostly a type of "herbal" or "natural" or "non-heavy science so it all safe of course" medication. It mostly works on placebo effect when it does work - the rest of the time its a very easy way for deceptive people to make a lot of money off very desperate people.
     
  8. Crouton

    Crouton New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Messages:
    3,523
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0
    What do you mean by something? What exactly are they watering down?
     
  9. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,537
    Likes Received:
    232
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +342 / 1 / -0
    I forget the specifics - its a very tiny dose of something. I think it might also vary depending what they are trying to cure you of - it could be the thing that is infecting you - a medial herb/mixture etc.... What it is really doesn't matter as they water down the solution so much that you are basically just drinking water.

    It works like many "miracle" cures do which is on the placebo effect as oppose to working on a scientific chemical level (chemically speaking its water and does what water does and nothing more).

    Watch the video - it really is quite accurate !
     
  10. JIM

    JIM zombie Turncoat

    Joined:
    May 28, 2008
    Messages:
    6,537
    Likes Received:
    212
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    chasing the zombies
    Ratings:
    +329 / 1 / -0
    yup. garbage. looked into it when going through my options. there was even one that had diluted boiled tobacco leaf taken rectally by syringe. as if i don't have enough troubles they wanted me to shove something the size of a turkey baster up my bum.....
     
  11. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    6,485
    Likes Received:
    200
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Bittersweet Hell
    Ratings:
    +231 / 0 / -0
    I never tried those watered down things, I only know those tiny sugar-balls - and they always helped against tummy aches, nausea, headaches and bad mood when I was little ^^ They even helped against puking ^^
    I think the trick with homeopathic stuff like that is, that you have to know when a placebo-effect is more useful than actual treatment. And my mom was able to do that very well (since she worked for a real doc). => I rarely got in contact with serious medicine against a cold and the likes when I was a kid and I guess that helped my body a lot, since it had to work mostly with what it had and the placebo effect.
    Also serious medicine still works for me because I didn't (and don't) use it that often. (I still use homeopathic stuff against a cold. Works everytime *shrug*, I see no reason why I should stuff my body full of actual chemicals to do, what sugar and water are able to do as well).

    That said, it's laughable to assume sugar and water would help against cancer and the likes.
     
  12. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,705
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    West Australia
    Ratings:
    +186 / 1 / -0
    Water :D To homeopaths, one drop of a substance in an olympic sized swimming pool is still too strong. So they're basically selling you watered down water.
     
  13. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,908
    Likes Received:
    215
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    England
    Ratings:
    +225 / 0 / -0
    Personally I think homeopathy is wishful nonsense although I suppose that for some the placebo effect may be enough to make living with their condition seem more bearable. With resistance to many conventional drugs on the increase the pharmaceutical industry will have to pull their collective finger out and develop new drugs. Some of those drugs may well enhance effects that are present in nature ~ whether flora/fauna/biota.
     
  14. Beldaran

    Beldaran Guest

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Seriously guys..do we really need to debate on this?? Homeopathy is simply one big joke..the guys who sell those thingy are just really smart money makers who obviously don't care at all about other people's well-being, or they're crazy for believing in their products
     
  15. anonymous

    anonymous the king

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,606
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Riga, latvia
    Ratings:
    +115 / 2 / -3
    I am not sure how homeopath is in your country, for us it`s the medicine that you use "to cure your self from inside", like medical tea& stuff...and yes, I do believe in medical tea`s n stuff :D

    Here`s the funny thing, we have like a shop( a popular one LOL) that specializes in "pseido-treatments" and they sell magnets that removes illnesses LOL. LOOOL. And crystals that remove aders lol.
     
  16. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,537
    Likes Received:
    232
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +342 / 1 / -0
    The debate isn't really as much on "does it work" but more on how much value should be applied to the area of placebo medication. Medical treatment has certainly been proven to be both chemical and psychological in nature. As Running has shown it does work and indeed many times the human body will get better on its own without the need for medication of any kind - placebo however helps because you "think" you're getting treatment which is helping you and thus you feel far more confident.

    Homeopathy is one such area of treatment - the problem though is when its abused for profit or when the whole concept itself starts to invade and attempt not to support regular treatments but to replace them.

    On the subject of herbal remedies I think its important to realise that many people don't have a clue how medication works or what is inside it. All they know is that pills and chemicals are made in factories and come from companies - very disconnected elements from their average life. Herbal treatment has risen in popularity even though many times valid herbal treatments are very similar to the chemical treatments (which often as not were developed based off research into herbal and other medical methods).
     
  17. anonymous

    anonymous the king

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,606
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Riga, latvia
    Ratings:
    +115 / 2 / -3
    It`s naive to think, that even pills and other modern medication is not a placebo, most of medication you take from an aptochary is placebo based. I`m sure of it.
     
  18. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

    Joined:
    May 29, 2012
    Messages:
    5,672
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +298 / 2 / -1
    I don't know what it's like in other parts of the world, but here you have to be very careful about taking herbal stuff because it isn't regulated by anyone. Personally, I don't consider herbs to be any different than drugs from a medical perspective since there is some biologically active compound in them that produces effects in the body. I think they're much more difficult to use though. Making an herbal remedy isn't as simple as picking a plant, drying it and eating it. You have to pick it at the right time of year, eat the right part of it and preserve it properly to get the effect you want from it. That kind of knowledge is highly specialized. Without any kind of regulation on who sells these remedies or in how they are manufactured, I'd vote for pharmaceuticals as the known quantity any day.

    I don't discount the placebo effect in anything. The mind is an amazing thing and sometimes a positive attitude can make all the difference.
     
  19. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,705
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    West Australia
    Ratings:
    +186 / 1 / -0
    • Like Like x 1
  20. carri27

    carri27 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2013
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    melbourne, australia
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    it's been totally discredited for years. my only gripe is that whenever there's a doco about alternative/natural medicines more broadly, they start with homeopathy because it's so easy to prove as complete bunkum, and then leverage it as a way of discrediting all others, some of which have merit.
     
Search tags for this page

homeopathy is useless