Hobbit or Not

Discussion in 'Debates' started by Kai, Dec 15, 2008.

  1. Kai

    Kai Dark Jedi Warrior

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    I am not sure whether this has been discussed before, but I have always wondered whether Smeagol/Gollum was a Hobbit. Yes, yes I know in the book it discuss's him as being a kin to Hobbits, but what about him was not a Hobbit. It didn't seem a long enough time between Smeagol's people and the Hobbit's of the Shire that they would be totally different. I have discussed this several times with my friends and I think the only reason that Tolkien doesn't straight refer to Smeagol as a Hobbit, is that in his beginning days Smeagol's people didn't refer to themselves as Hobbit's. And if Smeagol can logically be called in the line of Hobbit's does that not make him the oldest Hobbit to ever live?
     
  2. Árëlin Milloway

    Árëlin Milloway Toast Tiger

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    I always thought that Sméagol was not considered a Hobbit. However, I looked it up in "The Tolkien Companion" by J.E.A Tyler and here it says " Sméagol: Originally a lowly member of a family of Stoors (Hobbits)."

    The Stoors are later on defined as "One of the three breeds or clans of Hobbits. The Stoors weer larger and heavier in build than others of their race, and originated from the upper vales of Anduin, where they had once lived in close concord with the Men of that region of Wilderland." The paragraph goes onto explaining how most of the Stoors "emigrated north-west to join their kinfolk west of the Baranduin. These latecomers settled mostly in the Eastfarthing, near the banks of the river, and later some of them re-crossed the baranduin to dwell in the are known as Buckland (see Oldbucks)."

    I guess that would make him the oldest hobbit, yes, according to TheOneRing.net he lived from 2430 to 3019, making him pretty old. :p
     
  3. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Yep Toast has it - Smeagol was a far older generation of Hobbit - so there were some differences between him both physically and mentally. For example his people fished on the river, swam and used boats whilst the Hobbits of the "modern" times had little to do with water in general - though there was one clan of hobbits who did make and use boats - there were linked to being probably decendants of Smeagols people.
     
  4. Kai

    Kai Dark Jedi Warrior

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    I expected more of a debate, as that is what I usually get from my friends.
     
  5. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    unfortunatly you are amung those that either have or have tried to read the Silmarillion and other books of Lore - ;)
    Its a fairly well put point in the stories - there are greyer areas like the 2 missing wizards that traveled far into the Eastern lands and many other points that are not fully explained.
     
  6. Kai

    Kai Dark Jedi Warrior

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    Well when you put it like that, it makes sense as they haven't really read the Silmarillion. Looks like I am going to have to throw something more interesting out there.
     
  7. Árëlin Milloway

    Árëlin Milloway Toast Tiger

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    Oh, sorry, I should have started with claiming that he was not a hobbit, shouldn't I? Just to create controversy :p. Shame I came with that slammin' post too early. xD
     
  8. Kai

    Kai Dark Jedi Warrior

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    No its quite alright, if the debate can be over let it be over, we can debate on other things like how I think Tom Bombadil is one of the five wizards.
     
  9. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    Tom has a lot of theories about him - from being God to Tolkien himself!!
    However whilst his origins are not clear I think its clear just from the first book that Tom is not one of the Wizards. Firstly his powers are both different are generally considered greater than that of the 5 Wizards - remember that Tom was suggested as one of the people who could look after the Ring due to his power and resistance to its influence.
    However the idea was abandoned because Tom would not remember that we was watching the ring - as powerful and important as it was during the books the ring and Sauron are really nothing to Tom. He neither fears nor is concerned with them - his own life of choice being far removed from the war and much of the outside life of Middle Earth.
    Also the 5 wizards were sent with missions into Middle Earth - specific aims and thus their powers were also limited and focused in those areas (which is why when Gandulf returns as the White his powers have changed - he is sent back to take the place that Sarumon was mean to have had before he was corrupted).
     
  10. Kai

    Kai Dark Jedi Warrior

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    I have a small theory about Tom that I mention in the "Most powerful" thread, should be on the last page. To me Tom is given too much credit, for what I believe so small a thing. Concerning his mission, it really could be any number of things. Also the limit of power placed on the Istari is only assumed it is never really stated. Maybe they were at their limit. Tolkien believed that magic should live in Middle Earth as an undertone, not an answer to all. Wanting that as your thought about magic gives rise to the belief that maybe the great beings of Tolkien's world, were only great because they possessed in our eyes a small amount of magic. A one eyed man is King in a blind man's world, or however the phrase goes.