Helping Rand die (some spoilers)

Discussion in 'Speculation' started by Unraveller, Aug 27, 2004.

  1. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    Min's viewing of Alivia is that she will help Rand die, there's been a lot of speculation about this, mainly along the lines of helping him fake his own death. Here's my idea:

    The Prophecies indicate that Rand will have to die to defeat the DO at TG, although they only state that he will bleed at SG. The patching of the Bore with the Seals was incomplete because only saidin was used, to do it properly requires saidar too (or at least this is what we have been led to believe). What I think is that, as with Nynaeve at the Cleansing, Rand will have to link with a woman to succeed. Alivia seems the obvious candidate; Moraine being the long shot.

    Opinions?
     
  2. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    Hmm, seiing as she's probably the stronger female channeler in the series, I'd say that she would be a good candidate for a link with Rand. However, I would think that there would be more than two people in the circle. Perhaps she will not be the only one linked to the Dragon?
     
  3. Radagast

    Radagast Art House Member

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    I always guessed that if Rand was to link with any females, it would be Elayne and Aviendha. I have no real (logical) backing behind this theory however.
     
  4. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    I always believed that "his blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul" referred to the Aiel, his 'blood,' and not to Rand actually bleeding, it seemed too obvious, maybe he'll kill Slayer there or something, since he's his uncle it will still be his blood on the rocks if you get me.
     
  5. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    Good theory EMT, since we know he is related to house Damodred, there are many possibilities for 'His Blood' including the Aiel, Slayer, and let's not forget Galad.
     
  6. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    A cool Blademaster fight on the slopes of Shayol Ghul between Rand and Galad would be awesome ! I don't think Rand has much of a reason to kill him though, but still. Perhaps Moiraine then ? They are a distant relation, and Min said "he needs the help of a dead women or he'll never succeed." Long shot I know, but im just throwing another idea out there.
     
  7. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    I just thought of something else...Rand's children. Elayne is pregnant, and if memory serves, Aviendha's gonna have quintuplets, so maybe they will be born on Shayol Ghul, doesn't the prophecy say "his blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul," not "his blood spilled on the rocks of Shayol Ghul ?"
     
  8. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    Ahh, another good theory. I wonder if Slayer is considered a blademaster? If so him getting thumped at SG by Lan would rock!
     
  9. Nynaeve

    Nynaeve <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    Great ideas everyone! I think it's very possible that the blood spilled could be any of his relatives, or any Aiel, or even his side wound opening (or any wound) and spilling there to fullfill it.
    I like that one EMT. I had forgoten that quote (I forgot a lot of the small details), but that would be cool if Moiraine was the dead woman to come back to help him. Could it possibly mean that if she had not helped him BEFORE she "died", that he would not succeed? Like is someone other than her had found him in the Two Rivers first?

    Can't wait for some of these huge battles, they've got to be comming soon! I'm waiting to see Slayer defeated, by anyone, though Lan would be my favorite!
     
  10. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Hey Nynave, seems like you haven't been here in a while. Now its all good to be fighting Slayer at Shayol Ghul, but why would he even be there, he may not even be working for the Shadow for all we know.
     
  11. Nynaeve

    Nynaeve <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    I have not posted here too much recently, there was nothing too interesting for me to say. I always read everything here though, hehe!
    Does not make too much sense for Slayer to be there at SG, unless he follows one of the main guys there (a long stretch). Still can't wait to see him die, even if he's not working for the shadow directly, he's still evil and needs to go! :)
     
  12. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    I think he's working for the shadow to some degree, perhaps in a mercenary sense. It seems like I remember a comversation among the FS whare they were talking about Isam doing some work for them.
     
  13. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    Elan, quote "his blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul" is extremely ambiguous, as all prophecy is.:) But I don't think it can mean simply his blood's <i>presence</i> otherwise it would have to say "his blood <i>at</i> Shayol Ghul". It specifically says on the rocks, I don't think it could mean sitting or standing!
    Someone's gotta bleed, there are several possibilities though, Rand, his kids, Galad, Moraine, Slayer or various Aiel. Remember we know nothing about his father's kin, Aviendha could even be related to him!

    Nynaeve, Min definitely said that Moraine's was the only viewing of hers that'd ever failed, she saw something about Moraine she hadn't done yet. I'm fairly sure that thought was in connection with the other about him failing without a woman who was dead and gone.

    Another thought, how did Slayer come about? Did Luc kill Isam's body so Isam took over his body in T'A'R? Did he do it with the DO's (or Ishy's) help?

    There are several candidates to confront Slayer, his relatives, Lan, Rand and Galad, Perrin and Farstrider. He may be a blademaster, he was trained in Malkier and the Royal house of Andor but he uses knives doesn't he?
     
  14. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    He uses knives for assasinations but thats all we've seen him do combat-wise, he may use a long sword in a proper battle, who knows.
     
  15. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    Didn't Luc carry a longsword when he was in the two rivers? And I'd find it hard to believe that he severed a Myrdraal's head with a knife, wich he was said to have ridden into emonds field carrying heads of his victims.
     
  16. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    But he was commanding the Shadowspawn, he probably ordered another Myrddraal or Trolloc to do it, especially as he had multiple heads.
     
  17. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    I thought that Fain was commanding the shadowspawn. If Luc was leading the Shadowspawn that might put the question of his employer into perspective.
     
  18. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

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    I think they both may have had bands of Shadowspawn out there, unless Fain was simple poaching Slayer's. I could be wrong but Perrin suspects Luc because he had been at several farms the days before they had been attacked. We only see Fain with the Whitecloaks (he claims some of them were killed by Trollocs but only Bornhald's spies, I think he offed them) and his chained down Myrddraal, why chain it down it it served him? Slayer could have been there with his Trollocs to kill Fain, we have no proof either way, only supposition.
     
  19. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    Yea, I forget that fain has a price on his head from the DO.
     
  20. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Speaking of the battle of Emond's Field, why would the Trollocs be chanting "ISAM" rather loudly if he wasn't known to them, perhaps he did bring them there through the Waygate ?