Hate America

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by kartaron, Apr 22, 2004.

  1. kartaron

    kartaron Hunter / Gatherer

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    A significant number of people are openly attacking American people and policy as it concerns individuals, nations and the world at large. France used it to counter the Iraq UN discussions. Iraq used it to gather sympathy from the Middle East Nations and the UN. Arastide covinced his people that the US was trying to take over Haiti. A growing number of politicians in many nations blame the US for their own poverty and lack of freedom. Organized protestors are becoming increasingly violent in demonstrations against the WTO and other american influenced financial organizations. The attacks are not aimed at any particular party or official, just whomever the current leaders are at the time.

    Im curious what reason pepole might have to think that these things are true (whether accurate or not) and what might be done to fix things without allowing the world to degenerate into chaos (if possible or necessary). Also, does anybody here think that these criticisms are perfectly accurate? That we are an aggressive egomanical imperialistic nation with designs to dictate to the world a life of servitude to our whims. And if you believe that, what can be done to fix it, why havent you moved to France?

    without too much irrational vitriol please :)
     
  2. Elvenblademaster

    Elvenblademaster New Member

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    America Rocks man. We may have a fingers in to many people's pie's, but we make the pies taste alot better in the end, and don't try and take that pie away from us, or else well smash it in your face.

    But seriously, I don't think that we are
    But like I said, we may try and do, or control too much of what goes on in the world...
     
  3. urbanharlequin

    urbanharlequin Golden Marshall, 3rd Wing

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    I wouldn't even know where to begin answering that question. However, I do think we are stretching ourselves a weee! bit thin trying to fix all the woes of the world... what was it Bilbo said about feeling thin, as if being spread over too much bread...or toast...or muffins...or baked goods...or...you know what I am getting at.
     
  4. Lego

    Lego God amongst men

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    i can see why people might hate america, even though I don't think it is fair to hate veryone in america, i mean I like all you guys, but america's policies and actions do cause alot of action, especially here in england and other places in europe.
     
  5. Khamul

    Khamul Roaming

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    Did anyone watch the Daily Show last night? They covered this topic, lol
     
  6. kartaron

    kartaron Hunter / Gatherer

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    Honestly, as much press as that side gets and the anarchic nature of the people on the internet I expected a more negative response. Im proud to be incorrect.
     
  7. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    I think it's a mix of:

    Jealousy - America is full of natural resources and has a huge amount of land. They live in relative luxury (ie food, housing, clothing, healthcare etc). They have almost total freedom, within the cnfines of modern western laws of course.

    Economics - because the US economy is so strong, it can lean on other countries with offers or withdrawals of money. Australia's prime minister backs the US war on terror, and all of a sudden, our farmers who have been getting a rough time at the hands of the US market, are now getting great deals. Australia needs the US as an economic ally, because we're so small, so the PM did what he had to do to secure our financial future. You scratch my back I scratch yours, but lots of people around the world see it like "You scratch my back or I will ruin your economy and bring down your government because people will hate you!" That doesn't really engender goodwill, even if it is a decision any realistic government would make to ensure their economic future.

    Religion - using the current wave of Islamic unrest towards the US as an example, a current affairs program I heard last week had an expert saying that one of the main fundamentalist Islamic scholars decries the separation of church and state as somethign akin to distancing yourself from and rejecting god, which leads to hell. And Western Christian society with its separation of church and state, lead most visibly by the USA (the leaders of the free world), is in some fundamentalists' eyes, leading the world into hell. So in their eyes they're fighting to save their world from being dragged into hell along with the US.

    Morals - for any culture not as liberal as western culture when it comes to sex/drugs/rock 'n' roll etc, the bulk of western "culture" would be horribly offensive. Nudity, swearing, drug use, alcoholism, disrespect of authority etc etc etc. Nearly everythign about Western society at large would rub you the wrong way.

    Freedom - we can say and do whatever we like about anything we want, and we're protected! In many countries you'd get locked up or would mysteriously disappear for badmouthing your nation's leader. So that would probably be a mix of disgust and envy with the freedom we westerners enjoy.

    Foreign policy - the US has a well documented history of meddling in other countries' affairs, sometimes to positive or negative outcomes. However, the simple fact that they are known to "meddle" makes many countries angry at the perceived arrogance of such a thing happening regularly.

    Military strength - not many countries can step to the US when it comes to blowing stuff up. In 2003 the proposed military budget was almost $400 billion, way more than the economy of many countries. People hate bullies, and many countries see the USA's Schwarzenegger-sized military muscles as being used to bully other countries coz basically, who's gonna stop 'em?

    I'm sure there's more, but they're the ones I hear people going on about all the time.
     
  8. Elvenblademaster

    Elvenblademaster New Member

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    Reletive luxury......tell that to the homeless people that live below the bridge outside of my town. And the thousands of people that are homeless in every major city in the U.S. Almost total freedom. Yes I would agree with that, America is very blessed with Democracy.

    Well other than the fact that we are billions of dollars in debt now because of the war in Iraq, I would have to agree...

    Most people whether they live in America or not, confuse Seperation of Church and State, and being a begining College student I for sure don't know everything there is to know about it or other Governemnt issues and policys. But the way I understand Seperation of Church and state is, that it was setup to keep the church from contolling, and minipulating the government, and to keep the church from being taxed heavily.
    Now if seperation of C&S was to seperate all Church affairs from State affairs, then that would keep all Christians from voting, it would restrain Christian Architecs to just building Churches, or Christian politicians would not be allowed to govern, or Christian musicians would only be allowed a recording contract with a non-secular company.

    Sorry,I don't follow...I find these things offensive anyway, being the Christian that I am. So whats your point, are you saying that anyone who finds these offensive is a eastern terrorist???

    This is true, America is not a Totalitarian or even Authoritarian form of goverment, it is what is referred to as Freedom of Speech.

    All I can say is, if we didn't "meddle" so much, then there would be several countries whose fate's would be much different today...China for example, in 1898 the U.S. proposed the "Open Door Policy" which stopped the annexation of Chinese territory, and opened trade with all countries. We also had a hand in the winning of many South American countries independance.

    Seeing as how we use this military power to help other countries more often than we help ourselves, I don't think anyone but the bad guys can complain. That is like saying the police force is taking care of crime to well.

    So these are not entirely your opinions? I am glad.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2004
  9. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

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    I'm at work, without a great deal of time to respond just yet. But consider this:

    Any competetive event...sports...the work place...whatever...you tend to harbor ill-feelings for the guy on top. Face it, folks. America is the guy on top. I'm not trying to be cocky. It's true. Someone has to be on top, and right now that happens to be America. That may not always be the case, but until such a day as things change, everyone else can only be second banana :banana: at best. And that's gonna rub them the wrong way a bit.

    You'll note that our best allies are GENERALLY those that are also near the top with power & wealth, and those that despise us are GENERALLY...not always...those in third world countries, etc.
     
  10. Lego

    Lego God amongst men

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    practically everyone in the world hates bush apart from the americans that do.
     
  11. LadyoftheGoldenWood

    LadyoftheGoldenWood Well-Known Member

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    and your pont is???????????????
     
  12. Jessehk

    Jessehk The introverted

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    I think Bush is an idiot, IQ wise. But morally, he knows what is right, and what is wrong (except I don't agree with him on gay rights). Right now the U.S. is supporting Israel, which is definatly right (in my opinion).
    In the middle-east conflict, there is a democracy (israel is the only democracy in the whole area!) , an army, and civilians against bloodthirsty, racist, and desperate terrorists willing to do anything, including sacrificing their own children. I am not saying everyone, just the terrorists.

    Who do yuo think the U.S. should support? (sarcastic, in case you couldn't tell :D)

    I guess I am saying that the U.S. culture needs help (so do we, In Canada, every country does), but morally (most of the time), they do good things. Can we really blame them? Sure, they spend huge amounts of money on the military instead of on schools and healthcare. Which is really terrible. But that money usually goes to a good cuase. As far as I know, atleast. (we can only hope...)
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2004
  13. Khamul

    Khamul Roaming

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  14. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    I think the only real thing is americas foreign policy. They do too much in the outside world and even though they may be trying to help, they still get a bad rap because the little countries do not like another having the ability to control them (If a big strong wrestler tells a small puny kid what to do and how to do it, it may be help but it looks like control). Plus the thing about jeaslously is a factor, it perpetuates the fat-cat capitalist view of america, and even though there are problems with homeless about that stuff, I can promise you, the rest of the world never hears about it (I only realised how big the figures were when i saw bowling for columbine).

    But what the one main advantage that you have, and i think most countries believe, is that its the presidents fault, no one blames the people, when they say "America" they mean the government, or bush, he is not the most popular man woldwide at the moment. I dont hate america, i say "Enjoy yourselves if your at the top".

    The only evil thing about america is the private healthcare system, I cant believe that anyone without insurance can die waiting for a place in a free clinic. Isnt that totally immoral?
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2004
  15. theoden

    theoden 1st Marshal of the Mark

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    People always gripe that we spend so much on the military and not on healthcare and education. We spend over 10,000 dollars a year per capita on students in k-12, and that does not include the money spent on private education, and yes that is the highest in the world!(well over 200 bilion $ per annum and it gets bigger every year despite sky rocketing enrollment and private/parochial schools, and home schoolings) As for healthcare, you might have missed it but Bush managed to pass a 540 billion dollar add on to medicare for senior citizen drug prescriptions. That on top of what the gov't already spends plus over a trillion dollars a year spent on healthcare by American consumers in the free market.(nearly 18% of our economy)
     
  16. theoden

    theoden 1st Marshal of the Mark

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    And in spending 400 Billion a year on the defense of our nation lets see what the world gets for it. American troops in the Sinai keeping Egypt and Israel apart, American troops(37 thousand strong) in Korea keeping the democratic and economically hugely succesfull South Korea safe from the Stalinist North. American troops in Kosovo helping to keep the peace becuase after 7 years of war the mighty Europeans couldn't do jack about it till Clinton sent in the bombers. Japan's security has been gauranteed for over 50 years by American military forces(thats the second largest economy in the world in case you care). Not to mention the cost of maintaining over 100,000 troops in western Europe for half a century to keep the Soviets at bay. Further we get technology, who do you think developed the internet(originally aarpnet, to defeat soviet emp's) GPS, RADAR, nuclear power(France gets more than 80% of its juice from nuke plants) Jet technology, the jeep(I have one!)the SAT phone and so on, and by the way spends tens of millions a year on developing new and better prosthetics and reconstructive surgeries? Answer the United States Military! Not to mention the millions of jobs they provide for both directly and indirectly. Did I mention the G.I Bill which pays for thousands of ex soldiers and sailors to go to college on the military's tab every year?
     
  17. theoden

    theoden 1st Marshal of the Mark

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    A note for any Korean's who may view this site, I fully realize that South Korea provides huge resources for their own defense, and do not mean in any way to understate the value of the contribution they make to their own national security.
     
  18. Crusader

    Crusader Disturber of the Peace

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    It may be good but the world doesnt appreciate it? You should realise, out of most countires. The war of independence was one of americas definitive histoical events, yet you still go around the world butting into other countries busnesses like hypocrits (I'm speaking in third person perspective here, not my views).
     
  19. Jessehk

    Jessehk The introverted

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    what do you mean about keeping Egypt and Israel apart, theoden???

    they may be hostile, but there IS a peace treaty. Believe me, I should know.

    do you mean Israel and Palestine? :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2004
  20. theoden

    theoden 1st Marshal of the Mark

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    Were we butting in World I or II? were we butting in Korea? What Gulf War I? how bout Kosovo? Maybe we should have stayed out of Europe in the forties and let Kitler finish the Holocaust, or let the rest of the muslims in the balkans be slaughtered, or let South Korea be overun and be starving like the north is, or perhaps let the Kuwaities be raped and piliged to no end by Hussein. Good thing we didn't but in to Rawanda, only 800,00 people were hacked to death in a matter of months, thank God we did nothing there, coulda gotten ugly! Glad we left Somalia too, Lord only know what would have happened if we had stayed on to combat the warfare, plague and famine that has kille hundreds of thousands there. Guess what, we are our brothers keeper! And its damned time people stopeed whining about being arrogant till they need us then lecturing us on how it is our duty to help.