Gollum: Hero?

Discussion in 'Debates' started by Radagast, Sep 12, 2003.

  1. SEVENWOLVES

    SEVENWOLVES GET READY FOR PUNISHMENT

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2005
    Messages:
    721
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    IN NYPHYTE
    Ratings:
    +21 / 0 / -0
    forgive Gollum he didnt know what he was doing!!!
     
  2. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2005
    Messages:
    15,018
    Likes Received:
    306
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    In the hearts and minds of us all
    Ratings:
    +306 / 0 / -0
    he is in a way. he tried to help frodo and samwise but the ring corrupted him like everyone else before
     
  3. Galad

    Galad Lord of The Light.

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Wherever my imagination takes me
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    I think its good the way Frodo succumbs to the will of the ring. it shows how no one is spared. Now Smeagol WAS corrupted by the ring and was made into a kind of invoulantary Hero because the fool wanted the ring so much he would die for it. so its a yes and no from me.
     
  4. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    6,553
    Likes Received:
    201
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Bittersweet Hell
    Ratings:
    +236 / 0 / -0
    In his own way, yes Gollum is a hero.
    500 years long he has been under the rings control, that's a long time. The bilbo steals the ring, a hard loss. But then he finds the ring again and manages ist, to struggle against it and to be smeagul again, after 500 years. Respect! But the rings corrupts him again...
    In the end he destroys the ring, but he doesn't want to.
    So Gollum is a hero, but not the hero of this story.
     
  5. Urk the Gurk

    Urk the Gurk Urk the Gurk

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2007
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    I like Keithnotis's description of events, except I would describe the fall as smeagol tripping himself. And Smeagol didn't want the ring. he hated it, he wanted the protection it gave him.
    The movie plays on the split personality more than the books. In the books no one would call him cute. He was a little monster with nasty grasping fingers.
    I think if he had't fallen into the lava he would have scurried away, and the nazgul would have caught him halfway down the mountain. He wouldn't have thrown the ring into the pt then, because hewould never have a chance.
     
  6. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,908
    Likes Received:
    215
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    England
    Ratings:
    +225 / 0 / -0
    Gollum is THE man ~ well halfling/hobbit like thing ;) The fact that he's a murdering schizophreniic is not entirely his fault, although admittedly there does seem a predisposition as the ring's influence is unlikely to have had that profound an effect so quickly. He just needs love & medical care ~ do you want to give him a home? :D

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Mystarian

    Mystarian Magistrate of the Earth

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2007
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    Remember, Gollum is still a villian. What Tolkien was trying to show is that everyone can be bad, which is what happens with Frodo. He also shows that sometimes it isn't heros that do everything, hence Sam doing little. So instead Tolkien shows that sometimes it isn't the knight in shinning armor (or the hobbit with the hairy feet) that saves the day. Sometimes, its something completely different.
     
  8. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,908
    Likes Received:
    215
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    England
    Ratings:
    +225 / 0 / -0
    ^ True enough. I still think was a glimmer of a possibility of redemption for Gollum though ~ in ROTK we saw his two sides Smeagol v Gollum battling for supremacy ~ but the pull of the ring was too strong.
     
  9. Aeon

    Aeon White Mage

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    717
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    England
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -0

    Ahhh I love Gollum - I'll give him a home, but that pic is freaking me out!!!! [​IMG]
     
  10. stevenlink1

    stevenlink1 Knight of Hyrule

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    Gollum might be a tragic hero, but he just doesn't seem to fit the bill. I think Gollum's literary function is to show how mercy, and not power, was what saved Middle Earth.
     
  11. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2004
    Messages:
    30,528
    Likes Received:
    362
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Belgium
    Ratings:
    +384 / 0 / -0
    Gollum was crazy, evil is a big word. He had a split personality. On one side he was good, on the other he was bad and the closer he got to the ring, it seemed that his bad side was getting stronger so he was in fact also like frodo a victim who wwas manipulated. You can't say that Gollum was a hero, but he wasn't really a villain either.
     
  12. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,908
    Likes Received:
    215
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    England
    Ratings:
    +225 / 0 / -0
    I just think he was an ugly baby :eek:
     
  13. rhapsody of serendai

    rhapsody of serendai Thorn's Lover

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    157
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Planet SpringSprong
    Ratings:
    +157 / 0 / -0
    You've probably all seen this before but what the hell, I love it and I love gollum in it!

    Break it down now!
     
  14. Sakura-chan

    Sakura-chan The Radish Spirit

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2007
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    the united states
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0
    i agree that Tolkien was proving a point about inner evil and stuff but imo, gollum let evil get the better of him, which would make him a villian not a hero.
    sam and frodo were good because of their ability to fight and do the right thing. smeagol was the good side of gollum and although for a period gollum gave into this side of himself, he was weak when it came to the Ring's power.
    basically gollum just has too many issues.
     
  15. Thy Fearful Symmetry

    Thy Fearful Symmetry New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    Messages:
    682
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0
    No, I don't believe Gollum was a hero. After all, he didn't jump into the fire, he fell. It was an involuntary act on his part. Plus, of course, he commited murder in order to get his hands on the Ring in the first place, and this cannot simply be put down to the influence of Sauron - the Ring can only exacerbate traits which already exist in the individual. Bilbo held the Ring for many years without commiting any malicious acts, because his character was not inclined that way; Faramir refused the lure of the Ring because he was not full of pride and arrogance. Smeagol, Boromir, Saruman et al, they all had personality flaws that were simply brought to the surface by Sauron's malign influence. Thus I believe Gollum is a villain, not a hero.
     
  16. Dr manhatten

    Dr manhatten New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Hero–noun.
    1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.
    2. a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal: He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child.
    3. the principal male character in a story, play, film, etc.
    By any of those definitions then no Gollum was no hero, just a sad little thing that unwittingly took on more than he could handle.
     
  17. Greybeard

    Greybeard Geezer

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,900
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Toronto the Good
    Ratings:
    +58 / 0 / -0
    Gollum was neither hero nor villain, but the victim of the ring.
     
  18. KingLuffa

    KingLuffa New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Messages:
    605
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0
    I would put Gollum more towards the villian side. He only wanted the ring for himself and he unwillingly destroyed it
     
  19. Window Bar

    Window Bar "We Read for Light"

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    An old thread, this one. Ah well, I'm new here...

    Within Tolkien's concept of reality, the real hero is Divine Presence (i.e. -- Iluvatar/Eru in the Silmarillion). Although there is plenty of room for individual choice, heroism and villainy in Middle Earth, Tolkien believed that God had some kind of plan or destiny for each of us, and that such plan could transcend our own leanings.

    Tolkien's profound sense of irony is what made him so readable and believable. Boromir had only one true failing, pride, and it was his undoing. Gollum had perhaps only one virtue, a smoldering conscience that never really succeeded in overcoming his villainy, yet it was enough to earn him a kind of salvation in the end.

    Good thread, this one. -------- WB