God.

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by mithrilst0rm, Dec 6, 2003.

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  1. mithrilst0rm

    mithrilst0rm New Member

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    If you ask me, which you did not, but I will state my opinion anyways, I believe that god does not exist. I mean, if you think about it, it is quite silly. One "man" created all of us, everything around us, and decides our lives for us. I do not know about you, but I would like to decide what happens in my own life. From what I hear, the bible is quite contridictory also. What is your opinion?
     
  2. Isis

    Isis New Member

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    I must agree. I have been a devout atheist all my life. And I'm majoring in Anthropology, so I'm also a devout Darwinist. The scientific evidence is there to support evolution, NOT creationism. Don't get me wrong, I've been to services at Catholic churches, 7th day adventist curches, Mormon temples, baptist churches, Jewish temples, and Muslim mosques. So ive done my research. ive also taken theology classes and, of course, anthro classes. everyone should have a right to believe what they will, however, and not place judgements on others.
     
  3. mithrilst0rm

    mithrilst0rm New Member

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    No, no, no, Do not get me wrong. I was not judging others, I am just in dire need of some good debating/conversation. I do respect other people's beliefs, I just find the entire idea of god a bit outrageous.
     
  4. Gûd Daedheloth

    Gûd Daedheloth Foe of Morgoth's Realm

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    I agree with Isis that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so here's mine. I do believe that God exists. I've seen too much happen in my short life to believe in just blind luck and chance. I know that there are many things in science that point to Darwinism, but Darwin could not see to the molecular level which we now can, and there are many things that refute his theories. I'm no science major, just taking AP Bio as a Junior, so I can't really argue much scientific evidence with you, but I can debate on other fronts.
     
  5. Lonearcher

    Lonearcher Nocturnal

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    Ok, this could get out of hand but I'm going to way in anyway. First of all, I do consider myself a christian because I do believe in Christ. However, I do not attend any church (though I have attended several in the past) and I do not believe in any one religion. In fact I believe that most religions have the basics correct but tend to go off on wild tangents from there that don't make much sense.

    Mithrilstorm, you are correct in that the bible contradicts itself in many places. It is important to note that the Bible is a collection of many (possibly 100's?) of different writings written by many (possibly 100's again?) different writers over many 100's of years and that when it was finally decided to put all of these writings together in one book those who were putting it together did the absolute worst thing that they could do. They formed a comittee. All of the writings in the Bible come from different locations, kingdoms, city states, etc. and when it was being decided which works would go into the Bible there was whole lot of political clout riding on it. Any kingdom, city state, etc. that had ancient texts that were included in the Bible gained a lot of political power from this inclusion. So from the very beginning of what we know as the modern Bible we have corruption.

    Religion is power. Every one believes in something and therefore anyone who can dictate what will be believed has a whole lot of political power.

    So yes, I do believe there is a God. I do not however, believe that everything is determined by God before it happens. We do have a choice. The story of Adam, Eve and the tree of knowledge is an example of that choice. Adam and Eve had it good the garden of eden (basically paradise) and God provided everything for them but he told them do not eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge. He gave them the choice, he did not make it so that they couldn't eat from that tree, he just told them not to. They chose to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge.

    We each have control of our own lives and make our own decisions.

    As for creation, I seriously question the "Big Bang" theory. If something exploded and that is what every bit of matter that exists came from then what was it that exploded? It would have to have been huge to begin with!

    Ok, that's it for now. Let's see where this goes.
     
  6. doleniel

    doleniel Elven High Priestess

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    I believe in the Goddess and God in their many aspects.
     
  7. Isis

    Isis New Member

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    Lonearcher, what you said made a lot of sense. If I ever get the time (yeah right, I'm in college, I don't know what the concept of "free time" means), I want to read the Bible and see what all the hoopla is about. And as for the big bang, well, that's the point. no one knows what existed before the big bang, if anything. it's hard to fathom. I'm taking an intro to astronomy class, and my prof. said that the theory goes that time and space were created spontaneously with the big bang. that is a lot to swallow, i know. so i'm not sure if i agree with all of the tenets of the big bang theory myself. however, i do agree with Darwinism and evolution as it pertains to Earth. I have no clue as to the existence of Vulcans, Klingons, or any Ferengi out there.

    mithrilstorm: i wasn't disagreeing with you. i was agreeing with you. sorry if it came off that i was saying you were judgemental, i didn't mean that at all. i don't know you, so i would hope that you aren't judgemental.

    Gud: i see your point on the whole fate issue. i know ive had several things in my life that have led me to question my own beliefs about god. you all prolly dont want to hear a story, but here goes anyway (I really dont want to work on my homework). When I was 6 or so, my parents and I moved to Vegas. My dad had a job there, then he quit when it wasn't what he expected. So we packed up to move back home to California. There were stairs that led up to our appartment door and my dad was carrying our TV. He dropped the TV set on his foot and broke his ankle. When we got home, he went to the doctor's to get his ankle checked out (i guess he didn't realize how badly he was injured) and he had his doctor examine a strange looking mole on his back. Turns out the mole was melanoma and if my dad hadn't said anything (i.e. if he didnt break his ankle, we didnt move to vegas) he would have died. he's fine now (this was back in 1989), but it still made all of us think. I guess all of that bad stuff that happened during that time was a blessing in disguise because it saved his life. Does this mean that god exists and he intervened? Was my dad dropping that TV on his ankle a miracle? Some might say it was, but I don't know. It sure shakes the foundation of my own beliefs on teh subject.
     
  8. reem

    reem Slaps forehead "Doh!"

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    Alot of good points were made, but some were a bit off, if i'm to judge them according to my own beliefs. But I think Darwin is correct to a certain degree.
    Religion should coincide with science. They should proove each other. If they don't then there's something missing in the theories...something that was either left out or overlooked.

    I don't know much about science, but weren't there two 'kinds' of human beings? the Neanderthals and the Homo Sapiens or something or other?
    They don't look like each other, they don't even have very similar physical builds, and one became extinct while the other flourished and now dominates the earth. Can someone explain to me the theory behind the Neanderthals and the Homo Sapiens? Perhaps we might find an intereting lead there to the 'biblical' view and Darwin's theory.
     
  9. Harrison

    Harrison The Best Beatle

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    Mithrilst0rm-Where does the Bible contradict itself? God(whom I believe in) does not control our lives, that is one of the things that makes Him so great, He gives us our own choice. And God being a man referres to His gender, not His species. God is an enigma, we don't know what he is.

    Isis-Do you believe in the big bang theory?
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2003
  10. Isis

    Isis New Member

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    reem: boy is that a complicated issue. it's not a matter of "kinds" humans. it's a matter of different subspecies. If i am correct (it's been a while since i took biological anthropology), then this is the general schema of evolution: apes (don't remeber the scientific name) to various subspecies of australopithecines to homo habilus ("handy man") to homo erectus (full bipedalism and some primitive technological development) to homo sapiens. Now, Neandertals are a subspecies of homo sapiens (scientific name is homo sapiens neandertalensis). Modern day humans are homo sapiens sapiens (wise humans). Basically, the theory goes that when humans (arguably homo erectus or very intermediate between homo erectus and homo sapiens) left Africa some went to Europe to evolve into Neandertals. The ones that stayed in Africa became modern day humans. I'm not exactly sure why Neandertals died out. Perhaps the homo sapiens sapiens were just more mentally advanced and got to the game and good hunting areas before neandertals did. i'm no expert, so I'm not sure. but Neandertals are a subspecies of modern day humans, i guess they would be like our distant cousins. i hope that helps.

    gamigar: as for the big bang, I believe in some parts of it. I think a lot of it makes sense, but i have a hard time grasping the concept of what went on before the big bang, if anything at all. infinity is a very difficult concept to grasp, in my view. Also, if God is supposed to be all-powerfull, all-good, and all-knowing, then how can evil be allowed to exist? wouldn't God, if he is omnicient, know evil exists, and if he is omnipotent be able to eliminate evil, and, therefore, if he is all-good then isnt he obligated to eliminate that evil? And if evil is eliminated (i e, no free will, no choice between good and evil in our lives) how can free will exist? How can evil exist? I'm not saying I have the answers to these questions, because I don't. I just find them interesting to pose.
     
  11. Miriel

    Miriel My Preciousss

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    I believe that god does not exhist. And for this reason over all others. I believe that a person can get overinvolved with something, causing it to get out of hand. If god did exhist, how could he have written the bible? Now, I know the christian bible says god sent down a child to grow up and do his bidding, but in that case, how could that child be completely unsinned? Children are innocent by lack of knowledge, but if Jesus was the son of god, he would have had some sort of warning, some sort of sign as a child or else he most likely would have done rash things when he supposedly found out. If persay god sent a child to do his bidding, and all things born unto Earth are on their own free will, how come he sent a child to be a savior? Wouldn't that be considered forced actions? I have read and reread the chirstian bible and it never says that in truth Jesus wanted to be god's little helper. So if by any means god sent this kid on purpose to do what god could not, then Jesus could have easily said he did not believe, and nobody would have thought of christianity. In terms of that, perhaps it's just a psychological way to relieve stress to the human brain and give people something to look forward to. I am a strong believer in what's logical, and there is no logical proof of god or Jesus.
     
  12. Radagast

    Radagast Art House Member

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    Well, I'm no Christian, but I think they believe Jesus was God, to put it to easier terms. It wasn't exactly any little "child". Perhaps a Christian could go in more depth on my statement or refute my statement.
     
  13. Asgath

    Asgath Heavy-metal dwarf

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    Radagast, God in human form is what you mean, I guess, God in human form, like Gandalf, Saruman etc, I not beleive in God, or infact Jesus, one of such name could have existed, but I do not beleive him as son of god. All the things he did could have been done with Salves, herbs and such, Roman and Greek things...
     
  14. Harrison

    Harrison The Best Beatle

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    Isis-God knows about evil, He created the evil one, and He will destroy evil, but that does not mean that He has to do it now. He is letting the world run its course. If He were to destroy evil as soon as it came up we would all be dead. I believe that He is giving the un-saved a chance to become saved. He knows his plan, and He will not change it.

    Miriel-If you have really read and re-read the "Christian Bible", you would know that Jesus was confronted many times with the choice to abandon His path or to stay with God's plan, and as for the statement about choosing to be born the son of God, we don't choose to be born, so how could He?
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2003
  15. doleniel

    doleniel Elven High Priestess

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    Hmm, surprising, no ones started going nuts at me for my "heathen" beliefs.

    I believe that divinity is in everything, be it flora, fauna, or mineralia. Everything has a spirit and everything can be either good or bad. There is no black and white, there are just the shades of grey between.
     
  16. Harrison

    Harrison The Best Beatle

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    Does a tiny pebble too small to be seen by the naked eye floating infinately in space have a spirit?
     
  17. doleniel

    doleniel Elven High Priestess

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    Of a sort, yes

    Spirit is not exactly the same as free will

    Even the tinyest thing can make all the difference. That one tiny pebble could drift one way and be pulled into the Oort cloud, where it could be picked up by a comet as it hurtles towards the sun. This pebble may become part of the tail we see on earth and, though we may not notice it from here, that pebble will make all the difference in the appearance of the tail by being there. Or, it could fall into orbit around a star, where it will join with other pebbles to form a planet, one that might eventually support life. Or it could slam a hole into some spacecraft, releasing the pressure inside and killing the occupants. All things have the potential to give life, or beauty, or death. All things interact and react. A single atom could start a chain reaction that could blow up the Earth. That same atom could also create an almost endless supply of relatively clean energy. The thing is, no one knows. Thats the beauty of life.
     
  18. Isis

    Isis New Member

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    gamigar: how could a god who is all-good allow evil to exist in the first place? if he is all-good, how could he have created evil? how could something all-good (i e, no room for evil in his heart) know what evil is, how to create it, and allow it to exist? and, if he omniscient and all-good, why wouldn't he know what is in the unbeliever's hearts? i know a lot of very kind atheists who do not deserve to go to hell or purgatory or anythign but heaven. also, if he is omnipotent, why cant he just make eveyone believe what he wants them to believe? why let them have the choice?
     
  19. Kiernan

    Kiernan New Member

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    Simply put: Good and evil are opposites. Without evil, how do you know what is good? How do you define "good" without having something that is not good in existance?

    My only explanation for "Why do good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people" is that mortal life is a test for the afterlife. All of us are beset upon by challenges in our lives. Some more than others, but nevertheless you cannot find a person that has not ever had something bad happen to them, has not ever had to make a decision on a question of morality. What we do in life affects our placement in the afterlife.

    I also don't believe that people who don't believe in God won't end up going to Heaven. The Bible preaches forgiveness; I would think that God is very forgiving. And really, I can't blame any of you for not believing in Christianity. All of you have your reasons just as I have mine for believing in it.

    I really hate it when people do that, and I really hope that no one here does. It's one thing to post how you feel, like we have all been doing so far, but it's another thing entirely to tell someone that they have to believe as you do.

    - Kiernan
     
  20. doleniel

    doleniel Elven High Priestess

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    I know, its just that I have had problems like that in the past. I was not implying that any of you would.
     
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