God and magic (The occult from the Christian approach)

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Gil-Galad_360, Nov 24, 2006.

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  1. Foinikas

    Foinikas Playing backgammon!

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    Whoever is interested is free to read and draw his own conclusions.
     
  2. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    I really hate being on Foinikas side ;)

    I can see where those stories sound more like legends. A friend of my friend, a boy from somewhere....Yeah. But what about stories from actual people you talk to?
    As I said. I have personal experience. I dont use it to try and prove that there is magic etc. I let people think what they want. Of course I believe in the supernatural, I believe in God. Thats pretty supernatural to me.
    And just in case. No, I will not explain what my experience was. Mainly because I dont feel like being ridiculed in a public forum, and also its part of my life experience that I feel like keeping to myself. I might share in private but thats still an off-chance.

    Anyway. I believe in the supernatural. Supernatural is just things that science has yet to explain. I do not believe that science can explain everything.....yet. In time we will get further....maybe...maybe one day science can actually answer every question.
     
  3. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    But then it wouldn't be supernatural... would it...
    I hate to disagree with you on this, Alchemist... But yeah I know we don't agree on everything...
     
  4. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    Its fine. Yeah it wouldnt be supernatural. Its only supernatural now because there is no explanation. As of now the things I have actually seen, not heard of, but seen have yet to be explained. And until it can be, its supernatural. To me, supernatural is not necesarily magic. Its just something that science has not advanced enough to explain.
    But like I said. I believe in God and God, according to science, is supernatural. So its not a stretch for me.
    But yeah, we of course cant agree on everything. ;) If we did it would be like to Alchemists...and we cant have that.....or worse...TWO ANAKINS! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2007
  5. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Well from your point of view I am likely to accept cause its not the evil black magic as foin says... supernatural thats different, cause I also believe in supernatural things...but those are things we cant explain yet, as you said yourself, but I believe there is indeed an explanation behind it, but that means its not magic... its just something we haven't explained yet.
     
  6. Blackness

    Blackness Well-Known Member

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    I believe magic exists, however i don't think it has any connection to God.
     
  7. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    care to explain?
     
  8. Blackness

    Blackness Well-Known Member

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    I believe magic to be a kind of energy flowing through everything... something like Lifestream in FF7 :p
    Basicly human beings can learn to control such energy with training their mental power (back part of the brain has 10x stronger electromagnetic properties!!)
    which can result in people sending chairs in air and similar...
    I would also like to believe that summoning demons could be possible, but i just can't buy that ;)

    I mean, humans can already control electricity, heat, and different facets of energy...
    This would just be an unusal way of it.
     
  9. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    But that's magnetism.... It's a known scientific phenomena you're talking about... not magic...
     
  10. Blackness

    Blackness Well-Known Member

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    Wood has diamagnetic properties.
    As such magnets would have little or no effect on it.
     
  11. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    Well Anakin, sometimes the word "magic" is tossed in to explain the as of now unexplainable. And no, "magic", telekinesis, ki, whatever you want to call it, I do not see as dark or bad. I believe that there are these untapped things in just about anyone.

    Well, anywho. Im off to bed now. Got off work at 7:30 this morning after working all night, doing it again tonight and havent slept yet soooo...May the Force be with you ;)
     
  12. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    I would like to add to this, hotly debated topic, that the add bar has infact answered some of the fundamental questions being asked:
    The last two options clearly show that magic is real, by refrencing 2 totally different websites.
    As for the first 2, option 1 sounds interesting, if only one could think of something worth binding, and option 2,,,, well it might help some
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    well this is a fantasy site, so they like to advertise things like that here, they toss advertisement on my website of Greece and mythology as it is about Greek mythology and more...
     
  14. Padmé

    Padmé Mrs Cascador

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    More specifically it's electromagnetism that can effect people's abilities. Usually the two components which make 'strange things' occur is an undercurrent of running water and a magnetic field above. Often people who live with large power lines above their house, not simply phone lines or something like that, I mean heavy duty jobs, often come away with 'ghost' stories of their homes. Having creepy feelings etc. I'll give a nice example.

    A young woman was sitting in her kitchen, when all of a suddenly she noticed that it all seemed to change around her. The decorations of the wall, it seemed to be from another era. Then she saw standing at the window a woman at the sink. In a moment the 'vision' was gone and everything seemed to turn to normal. Of course the lady who saw this was distressed somewhat, and believed she had seen a ghost. So she decided to investigate, she had noticed the decorations were of a particular era, the 40s and 50s, and sure enough she found out a woman had lived there at that time. But there was one problem, the woman was still alive.....

    Confused, she went to meet with this lady, and she completely described to her what she had seen in her vision, the elderly lady confirmed that indeed her kitchen had looked the way it was described and so forth. Now if that old woman had been dead, what would people have naturally thought? Oh a ghost! But she was still alive, so what is that about?

    Studies concerning electromagnetism have shown that the effects it can have on the brain can lead to such 'phenomena' as telekinesis, telepathy. Those are extreme examples, but more common is the feeling of unease, emotional effects. The feeling of being watched etc I'm dumbing it down a lot otherwise I'll be here typing all night! But it is still something that is greatly being looked into.

    One incident did concern a rather unusual individual to say the least. All of us contain some form of magnetism on the skin, and it can be picked up. But a woman and her family were having somewhat distress with their home. She claimed that she was able to read the thoughts of any family member within their home at any given time. They also spoke of objects moving at their own will etc etc The list goes on. After a test of this woman, they noticed that her skin had no magnetism at all. That's strange but not enough to explain all the goings on, however, their home was in an unusual spot. As I specified, there was a deep water drainage system running directly under their house, that's fine, but above their home were large power cables, now this area between the current of flowing water and the electricity, well I don't need to explain do I? The fact that our brains are 'run' with liquid and electricity, such an environment to be in is testing, but for most people it does not have such a huge effect. But the fact this woman had no magnetism in her skin, only made her more vulnerable. It eventually became so bad they had to move, and sure enough, once they had, everything stopped. But the family who lives there now, no problems, though they still wonder about the whole 'ghost' issue. But it's nothing to do with that at all.

    We barely know anything about the workings of our own brain, so this research is still very much going on. I don't put hands down to it, but I do keep as up to date with it as possible. On a side note, my parents often spoke of their first home being 'haunted', my mum always spoke of the feeling of being watched, the dog they had used to get scared, and bark down the stairs as though looking to something that wasn't there etc etc But once they moved, nothing more happened. I always thought it was just rubbish, but as I watched an old photo of the house, I noticed the same thing. Their house was situated under a very large and ugly looking tower with countless power cables connecting to it, so I couldn't help but wonder. I don't say 'ah ha!' but I do wonder.

    Even with Nostradamus, he supposedly predicted the future, but also saw events of the past and (his) present. But what was the 'element' he used to encourage his visions? He would look into a large basin of water that he would place under his head. Again you have to wonder if magnetism was involved. Although it's hard to judge with him, he almost always changed the dates of his predictions because at the time he lived, people began to think he was a sorcerer etc And in those days those kind of rumours could lead to him being executed. This was also why he moved around so much. He was also known to have a cure for the plague in those days, which of course as you will all know was a long time before one was 'officially' discovered. But using herbs, plants etc he had 'supposedly' found a solution. Another thing which aroused suspicion from citizens of those time towards him.

    But I myself don't think it is anything to do with magic, that goes for any kind of ghost story etc. 99.9% of it is made up. Even with the electromagnetism, I still need it to be proved to me to believe it's the case, but at least it is more credible than..... Oh it must be magic eh?!
     
  15. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    Yeah, EMF (electromagnetic fields) can affect how people feel etc. But while it does explain many cases. There are also cases that these explanations dont work. Like I said, I dont automatically jump to supernatural, psychic, etc phenomenon. While I do believe that there are supernatural things, I immediately jump to how it can be scientifically explained first. I only label things "supernatural" when I run out of explanations.

    When it comest o electromagentic fields effecting things, there are easy to get equipment that can detect these fields. High levels can cause people to feel like they are being watched etc.
    When I mentioned that I have personal experience I explored every possible explanation first. Everyone has their own opinion on how many of these stories are made up or not. Since I am not around your area I cannot dispute your statistics that 99.9% of the stories are fake. Through my own experience of my area, I would say 90% of most supernatural or paranormal experiences are either fake or can be explained through other means.
     
  16. clouded_perception

    clouded_perception clouded_perception

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    Can somebody please define "supernatural" for the purposes of this discussion?
     
  17. Alchemist

    Alchemist The Fighters Guide House Member

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    I thought its was explanatory itself...

    supernatural -1: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil2 a: departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b: attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)

    I would say all of those would apply to this discussion. In my posts the second definition is usually what I am referring to. But again, all work.

    Another one:

    Paranormal: : not scientifically explainable : supernatural

    That one as well.
     
  18. mz-readaholic

    mz-readaholic Use The Force

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    hmmm i would say that magic does exist, but probably not to the level that people make it out to be? i don't really know, but i do know that supernatural things happen, good and bad. we can't prove that magic or supernatural things can happen, coz there will always be skeptics, but also, just because there is no proof of something doesn't mean that it isn't real.
     
  19. clouded_perception

    clouded_perception clouded_perception

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    What I meant was, are we speaking of supernatural as that which has not yet been explained by science, that which is forever unexplainable by science because of human limitation, or that which defies the basic tenants of rationality? All three of these things are drastically different.
     
  20. Cascador

    Cascador Who's Anakin?

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    Well I think that depends on every individual... Some see it for all three, at my knowledge for example Alchemist believes in just the first two... But with some as foinikas it seems tend to believe in the third one too...
     
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