Glorfindel v. balrog??

Discussion in 'Books' started by Scrinlord, Nov 18, 2003.

  1. Falagar

    Falagar Death

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    Well, most of the writings in BoLT (both 1 and 2) are from around 1915-1920 or so, and the Fall of Gondolin is (IIRC) the first story Tolkien wrote included in what became the Silmarillion (wrote it on the back of a sheet while serving in France during World War 1).
    The Silmarillion changed alot till what is published as "The Silmarillion" (mainly writings from the 50's), and it changed some more until the very end of Tolkien's life (I believe the latest writings published are from three months before he died).

    Which is why Christopher Tolkien had such a big problem putting it all together. He had earlier versions that did not fit at all with later versions, theories (but only theories, not written as stories) contradicting almost everthing written earlier (like the world being round from the beginning) and a few places where he had to adapt earlier versions to fit with later versions simply because there wasn't any later versions that could go in between.

    [end rant]
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2004
  2. kartaron

    kartaron Hunter / Gatherer

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    If you just take the fact that balrogs are evil maiar that means that there would have to be thousands of maiar to have thousands of balrogs. Since I havent seen evidence of more than a handful of Maiar I think that 7 balrogs seems about right. It also creates a good reason to send a couple of Istari-Maiar to counter the balance.
     
  3. Tilion

    Tilion Was never a

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    Sauron was an Ainu, as are all the ones who chose to come down to earth after the singing. He wasn't Vala, maybe that's what you ment?.
    About Maiar:
    "(...)These are the Maiar, the people of the Valar, and their servants and helpers. Their number is not known to the Elves, and few have names in any of the tongues of the Children of Ilúvatar(...)"
    A few are named that serve some of the Valar. Judging from the above description I'd say there were at least dozens of Maiar, probably hundreds.
    It also says that "(...)many were drawn to his (Melkor's) splendour in the days of his greatness (...)".
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2004
  4. isengard111

    isengard111 The Master Chief

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    There could be millions of Maiar for all we know.
     
  5. Shinagani

    Shinagani New Member

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    Woah convo's still going, all my info was from the BOLT 2, Falagar's pretty much right Tolkien's habits of writing and re-writing left the whole story in quite a predicament when he died and couldn't finish re-writing the Silmarillion. It does seem as if Tolkien meant for there to be less Balrogs than the original Fall of Gondolin, making the whole story null and void, because scores of Balrogs died there. I prefer to think there was tons of Balrogs cuz I absolutely love the Fall of Gondolin( all hail Ecthelion), so yeah that's all I got to say, did I say anything or did I summarize the whole thread?(I tend to do that a lot)...so...yeah....
     
  6. aule

    aule The Smithy of the Valar

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    In The Fall of Gondolin that is included in the Sil, Tollers states that there was only one that showed up and both he and Glorfindel died... but also later on he mentions that there were many Balrogs that were involved in the War of Wrath and the wreck of Thangorodrim in the North...
     
  7. Falagar

    Falagar Death

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    I believe there were two Balrogs around Gondolin in the published Silmarillion (the one Glorfindel took down and Gothmog, whom Echtelion killed).
     
  8. aule

    aule The Smithy of the Valar

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    that does sound right, but I couldn't find a reference to Gothmog while I was looking througgh it the other day...
     
  9. Will_K

    Will_K New Member

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    Its a shame that Glorfindel wasn't included in the FOTR movie. His involvment was one of the highlights of that story for me.

    Gandalf seemed to use his powers in direct proportion to the threat that was present at the time. In the case where he was fighting alongside others he seems to fight on par with their skill. Gandalf is bested by Saruman during his one on one fight in the FOTR. There is no way of knowing what would happen if Glorfindel were to fight Gandalf.

    -Will
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2004
  10. MaximusAralias

    MaximusAralias New Member

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    pertaining to the very first post in this thread...glorfindel killed 1 balrog...ecthelion killed 1 balrog (gothmog) and Tuor killed 5...gandalf killed 1....and the gnomes from the house of the hammer of wrath killed 1...that makes 9...there are no more balrogs...and as for the strength of these people...the elven lords of old were said to be the most powerful elves of all time, being at their full stature during the first age at the spring of their lives. by the third age the power of the elves was diminishing in middle earth, and so there would be very few who could still stand the might of durins bane. perhaps elrond or celeborn...
     
  11. Ranger Halbarad

    Ranger Halbarad New Member

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    Good point,Asgath.
     
  12. Ranger Halbarad

    Ranger Halbarad New Member

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    Good point,MaximusAralias
     
  13. Ruls

    Ruls New Member

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    Gonna dust this thread off, Fingolfin is probably the greatest warrior of middle earth. Living long enough to wound Morgoth? Feanor might have been able to stand up to Morgoth. Not many else would have I don't think.
     
  14. Druid of Lûhn

    Druid of Lûhn The Little Lamb.

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    Aren't we talking about Glorfindel fighting a Balrog though? Of course Fingolfin is better than him though.
     
  15. Eraisuithon

    Eraisuithon Moriquendi

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    You have to remember that Aragorn was technically part Maiar, being descended from Beren and Luthien...
     
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