Gay Rights Poll/Debate

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Tinuviel, Dec 4, 2003.

?

Are you for gay rights?

  1. yes

    232 vote(s)
    68.4%
  2. no

    68 vote(s)
    20.1%
  3. yes and no

    39 vote(s)
    11.5%
  1. Urambo Tauro

    Urambo Tauro Art House Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2003
    Messages:
    455
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Banks of the Gonduin
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    Re: Homosexuality

    It's not wrong because I think it's wrong. It just is. My opinion doesn't matter.
     
  2. Arwen

    Arwen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    5,450
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Ratings:
    +45 / 0 / -0
    Re: Homosexuality

    Just because it works for 1 person, doesn't mean it's the case with everything. There is a lot not understood about why people are homosexual. It could be genetic, environmental, choice...no one knows everything about it. We actually studied homosexuality breifly in my abnormal psychology class with other psycho sexual conditions (I don't think that the term I'm looking for but you get the point).
     
  3. Gûd Daedheloth

    Gûd Daedheloth Foe of Morgoth's Realm

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    1,222
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Re: Homosexuality

    I believe it's wrong. We weren't meant to be that way. Think about it... Man + Woman --> Baby. Not Man + Man or Woman + Woman. So I don't think anyone can accurately say that they were born gay. Like Justice said, I can tolerate it, like I can tolerate other people doing wrong things. But that doesn't mean that I accept it as being ok.
     
  4. Skyanide

    Skyanide The Big Meanie Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    7,025
    Likes Received:
    76
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +77 / 0 / -0
    Re: Homosexuality

    ^^Funny, I disagree. I would find it more likely that someone is "born gay" than "turned that way" by experiences, environment and upbringing. These factors may bring about the personal acceptance of being gay or "coming out", but I don't believe that someone "becomes" gay. I don't believe that having gay parents will make you gay, either.

    They are or they aren't. As for the previously gay man who married a woman. I suppose that he was bisexual to begin with. He chose to marry a woman. Let's not confuse love and sexuality. He loves the woman, married the woman, and (probably) is faithful to the woman. But that doesn't mean that it couldn't have been the other way.
     
  5. Urambo Tauro

    Urambo Tauro Art House Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2003
    Messages:
    455
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Banks of the Gonduin
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    Re: Homosexuality

    You're right. No one can be turned into a homosexual against their will. They have to consent to it. It is a choice.

    Can that be proven? I mean, no one can remember back to when they were born. If someone is bisexual to begin with, it would have to be a genetic, scientific anamoly- an anamoly that can exist in creatures other than humans. Good references would be appreciated.




    "It just is" is a weak argument anyway, and my opinion still doesn't matter. This is bigger than my opinion.:)
     
  6. Arwen

    Arwen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    5,450
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Ratings:
    +45 / 0 / -0
    Re: Homosexuality

    You guys have inspired me to drag out my psych text book..anyway according to my text book homosexuality used to be considered a form of mental illness (in the 60s), but in the 70s it was removed from the DSM (lists all psychological conditions) since it does not impair one's functioning. As culture evolved and "more and more people came to believe that reproduction was not the main purpose of sexual behavior. Along with this view came increased tolerance for greater variety in human sexuality."
     
  7. Kiernan

    Kiernan New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2003
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Re: Homosexuality

    Like people have said before in this post, who in their right mind would choose to be gay? Just as you, Urambo, cannot find another man attractive (sexually), nor can a gay man find another woman attractive. I can't comprehend being homosexual, nor can they comprehend being heterosexual.

    My psych text says the same thing as well. My professor did an informal true/false pre-test at the beginning of the course, and one question on it was "Homosexuality is a psychological disorder."

    The nearly unanimous answer (99% of the class, maybe) was "False," which I found very encouraging.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2003
  8. Skyanide

    Skyanide The Big Meanie Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    7,025
    Likes Received:
    76
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +77 / 0 / -0
    Re: Homosexuality

    ^^ The problem with psychology is that it is not an exact science but based on theories and conjecture with very little empirical evidence. 20 years from now, they may have a different theory.

    You can't compare the science of psychology with that of physics. F=ma is the same as it was 100 years ago, and not dependant on the opinion du jour...
     
  9. Arwen

    Arwen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    5,450
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Ratings:
    +45 / 0 / -0
    Re: Homosexuality

    You are right, Sky...but psychology, like society is closely assosciated with accepted culture. But they did make a very valid point in saying that it does not impair one's ability to function- which is the main criteria for any condition to be considered "abnormal".
     
  10. Urambo Tauro

    Urambo Tauro Art House Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2003
    Messages:
    455
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Banks of the Gonduin
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
  11. Kiernan

    Kiernan New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2003
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Re: Homosexuality

    This one doesn't help your argument at all, Urambo. If its genetic it's not a choice.

    This one is too biased to be taken without a grain of salt. The National Association for Search and Therapy of Homosexuality? I mean, the site is crawling with links for anti-gay products such as a book titled "You Don't Have to be Gay" and another called "Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth." I could pull more examples of their bias off the site, but I can't read the language that its in. (German maybe?)

    This is like trying to argue for abortion by pulling pro-choice website links, or trying to argue against gun control by linking the NRA website. You need an unbiased source to make an effective argument.
     
  12. Urambo Tauro

    Urambo Tauro Art House Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2003
    Messages:
    455
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Banks of the Gonduin
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    Re: Homosexuality

    I posted that as an intrduction to the next article. If I hadn't, someone would be asking for it, right?

    I'm still trying to find an unbiased website. This one provided facts and facts are what I was looking for. If you find an unbiased one, please post a link for us.



    My opinion still doesn't matter. This is bigger than my opinion.:)
     
  13. Kiernan

    Kiernan New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2003
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Re: Homosexuality

    Good point. I thought that was probably why you put it there, but I didn't write that. It's late and I'm tired, sorry for the oversight. :)
     
  14. Urambo Tauro

    Urambo Tauro Art House Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2003
    Messages:
    455
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Banks of the Gonduin
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    Re: Homosexuality

    No harm done. Let us know if you find anything, OK?
     
  15. Lonearcher

    Lonearcher Nocturnal

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2003
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Re: Homosexuality

    Ok, I've a question for you Arwen: My wife happens to have an unusual trait that I'll simply call "confessor" (for lack of a better term) meaning that the more time a person spends around her the more they tell her about their deepest secrets. It sounds weird, I know but it happens.

    Ok, here's the question: Over the years my wife and I have had several friends and co-workers who were gay. All of the gay people that we have known (those that have brought it up) have stated that they were sexually abused st a very early age. This has led me to the theory that homosexuality is a result of psychological trama (most likely caused by sexual abuse) that occurs in early childhood developement. Granted this is only a theory and is based only on my limited observations, but if it is correct then it would uphold the assertion that there is no choice involved in whether a person is homosexual or heterosexual.
     
  16. Arwen

    Arwen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    5,450
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Ratings:
    +45 / 0 / -0
    Re: Homosexuality

    *Puts on her psychology cap*

    I think it could be a result of psychological trauma- but does not have to be. Like I said before, there is not a lot known about what causes the "condition". In 1 of the articles Urambo posted it said that genetics could play a factor, but do not necessarily have to. I think people are a combination of genetics and their environment. Some people are more likely to be predisposed than others- which holds true for many things in our lives. Perhaps the abuse made the victims afraid of the opposite sex, and left them with no other option. Needless to say, the mind is extremely powerful and people can make themselves believe a lot of things without necessarily realizing it.
     
  17. Kiernan

    Kiernan New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2003
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Re: Homosexuality

    I can't tell you whether or not this is true. I can tell you that based upon my limited knowledge (college psychology text), there are no scientific or psychological findings to back up your theory. You are the first person I have heard propose this before.
     
  18. Lonearcher

    Lonearcher Nocturnal

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2003
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Re: Homosexuality

    Thanks. Like I said, it is based only on my limited personal observations. But it is something that I have wondered about for a few years now.
     
  19. Urambo Tauro

    Urambo Tauro Art House Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2003
    Messages:
    455
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Banks of the Gonduin
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    Re: Homosexuality

    Upbringing, like the first 20 or so years has a whole lot of influence on a person. Possibly more influence than the rest of their life. Environment, people, all these things have a huge effect- especially psychologically.

    Does that mean whatever they were raised with is the lifestyle they keep? No. Consider this-
    An alchoholic father has two sons- one addicted to alchohol, the other not. When asked why they chose (alchohol or no) they BOTH responded, "because of my father".

    And as far as choice or genetics, how about this?
    If you take a "genetically homosexual" man, sit him down in a chair ten feet away from a naked man, put a gun to his head, and tell him that if he tries to have sex with the naked man you will shoot him, will he be able to restrain himself? Absolutely.



    Special thanks to SH and JB for these two examples.
    My opinion still doesn't matter. This is bigger than my opinion.:)
     
  20. Skyanide

    Skyanide The Big Meanie Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    7,025
    Likes Received:
    76
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +77 / 0 / -0
    Re: Homosexuality

    An alcoholic's son may have a genetic predisposition to addiction, just as a hetero with a gun to their head might have sex with a gay, if their life would be spared...ofc, if he could perform.

    We aren't discussing about what people do under the threat of death. I'm not a violent person by nature but I would have ABSOLUTELY no qualms about killing someone with my bare hands or sacrificing my life to save my wife or children.

    We're discussing a behaviour that is not induced by duress.