Gay Rights Poll/Debate

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Tinuviel, Dec 4, 2003.

?

Are you for gay rights?

  1. yes

    232 vote(s)
    68.4%
  2. no

    68 vote(s)
    20.1%
  3. yes and no

    39 vote(s)
    11.5%
  1. Julie

    Julie Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I agree; People who are like that, like you said, view homosexuality as the filth of society, or as a disease, as abnormal,.. They just make me so angry, I just can't think about it too much or I'd be pissed off all the time..
    I think maybe the over-the-top gay pride parades and all this is a counterreaction to this intolerance. This is often how identity works, in counterposition to someone/something that makes you feel left out.
     
  2. S.J. Faerlind

    S.J. Faerlind Flashlight Shadowhunter

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    I think this is a very good point. People always seem to want to justify their position flamboyantly and outrageously when someone else opposes them. Reaction = opposite counter-reaction of the same level of ferocity. Rationality and tolerance is rarely involved on either side of a conflict, making one side as bad as the other. I find the similarities between extremists of any viewpoint to be kind of ironic actually...
     
  3. Taliesyn

    Taliesyn It's a feral reality out there, kids.

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    This.
     
  4. Lord Yuan

    Lord Yuan Death-Thousand+

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    I guess if people could keep their cool, Socrates would have had his utopia when he was still alive. Does the LGBTsuchandsuch movement still not really have a leader? That could be part of the problem in rearing in protestors to protest in ways that can actually convince the opposing side.
     
  5. Dreamscaper

    Dreamscaper Royal Hamster Wrangler

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    That's an element to a point, but my personal experience is that the majority of the gay folks I've met are more "HEY LOOK AT ME I'M GAY, LOOK! LOOK! CALL ME A *bleep* SO I FEEL JUSTIFIED" types that seem to base their life goals on being as annoying and obnoxious as humanly possible. Then again I suppose that goes along with the whole teenage rebel against 'The man' thing since all of them were teen to mid 20's. I have met a few that weren't like that, one of my friends in particular, very upstanding woman that was pretty much the opposite of the above and actually cared for people other than herself. So it's not just a blanket ignorance either.
     
  6. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Your last point is a good one... and it's something Olivia and myself butt heads over when I first joined up here. She posted a pic of herself at a Gay Pride Parade (as I recall) and I mentioned that gay parades work against that goal of being accepted as equals. Liv and I are friends now so it's all kind of funny we really went at it back then!
    My point was that gay people don't need to get me, or Liv, or you on their side... we want them to be treated just as we are in every way, including being able to marry and have that marriage recognized as legal in all 50 States and in all parts of the world... the people they need to have on their side are the fence-sitters. The people who can be reached with a reasonable argument and who will slowly see the light. It's been a long slow grind in America but those kind of people are finally coming around and accepting gay people as equals. It won't be long now, I think, that gay people will enjoy full rights in this country.
     
  7. Julie

    Julie Well-Known Member

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    The fiancee of my crazy housemate in Exeter is doing her masters in theology, and she wants to become a vicar I think. Or whatever you call it, she's in the methodist church. And she's writing her dissertation on why gay marriage should be allowed - from a biblical/theological point of view. I think we need people like that. "The Insiders" :) Trying to make change from within... I think it is chiefly a religious thing why people are against it, right?

    I am glad America is going through these changes, but... If you feel like reading something depressing, here you go:
    http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/african-activists-fight-homophobia-2013-06-26
     
  8. Dreamscaper

    Dreamscaper Royal Hamster Wrangler

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    Primarily, but its an odd point of view as legalizing it doesn't change whether or not they are committing any sins or not, nor will not being allowed to marry going to stop them. So on a personal religious level it is kinda moot one way or another. The only real argument I can see is that a law legalizing it effectively makes it a nationally condoned action when large swathes of the population clearly don't support it. I'd be fairly interested in the paper, I presume its why it should be allowed on a national level and not a religion one, right? I'd be kinda interested in seeing it either way.
     
  9. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    It's mostly religious obstacles that gay people face in America... primarily from the Baptists and Mormons. And of course the damn Conservatives who would love to take us all back to the 1950s when life was simple, and there were no gay people.:) By the way, the Methodists in America are one of the more liberally minded christian groups so it doesn't surprise me that your friend is tackling that issue for her dissertation.

    The link you posted is quite interesting and you might be shocked to learn that another stumbling block gay folks have in this country is the Black Community.

    The really good news is that it hasn't been liberal courts that are striking down the bad legislation passed by conservative state governments... it's been conservative courts that are nullifying these laws against gay marriage.
     
  10. Julie

    Julie Well-Known Member

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    but if it's blatant discrimination that the population largely supports, then the government should educate its population better. In the American constitution they protected the population against "mob rule" through the senate, the electoral college,..
    I think it's still primarily religious because yeah they will be having sex either way and "sinning", but then it's just them sinning, it's their choice.. But if they can marry - the sacred bond- it is the state (everyone's state) and the church with it, condoning the sin, so that's a whole other level of "wrong" for them..
     
  11. Dreamscaper

    Dreamscaper Royal Hamster Wrangler

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    I was agreeing this it was religion based, even if in my own point of view as a religious person that I don't see the particular line of logic. Marriage isn't really a sacred bond when performed by a judge/tax collector/etc though. Now, if it became law that a church figure had to marry homosexuals if requested and would be fined or imprisoned if he/she refused then I can see major problems with it. The work rights thing I can see being important, except in states like Florida where they can fire you for any reason at all and don't necessarily have to tell you why and without proof that it was discrimination you're just outta luck.
     
  12. SwanofWar

    SwanofWar New Member

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    I have no interest in political debates, but I will say on this matter that on one hand I do not agree with or support homosexual behavior. However, I believe that homosexuals do not deserve to be mistreated and will stand against anyone or any group that demeans them.
     
  13. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    By the mere fact you do not agree with or support homosexual behavior means you have already demeaned gay people. Your opinion makes absolutely no sense at all.
     
  14. Dreamscaper

    Dreamscaper Royal Hamster Wrangler

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    His/Her position is perfectly valid.
     
  15. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    To you it is.
    To me, it is not.
     
  16. SwanofWar

    SwanofWar New Member

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    I don't agree with what they're doing with their life. If that makes anyone feel bad, I don't know what to tell them.

    Let's put it this way, I get petitions sent to me from change.org. If I get a petition about ending a law in another country that puts homosexual's in jail, I sign it. If I get one about pushing for homosexuals in comercials, I don't sign it. I don't support them, but I don't support them being mistreated for their lifestyle either. If someone asks me if I support homosexuality, I'll say no. But if I see a homosexual couple I won't go making faces at them or trying to make them feel bad.

    But like I said, I don't enjoy debating, just want to clarify my stance :)
     
  17. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Oh I already understand your stance fine.
    You'll stand up for homosexuals so long as it doesn't cost you anything or intrude too deeply into your religious beliefs. Beyond that you have no real compassion for gay people.
     
  18. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    I'd also say that Swan doesn't have any particular animosity either. As long as the number of pro + ambivalent keeps outnumbering the anti, progress will keep marching forwards.
     
  19. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    I once stood where Swan does now, perhaps at some point you did too... I think it will take more straight guys like you and I saying "enough is a enough" to finally overturn history.
     
  20. Dreamscaper

    Dreamscaper Royal Hamster Wrangler

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    Would you rather Swam be entirely against homosexuals instead of relatively neutral? Or is the only valid stance the one that agrees with yours? I do not find the world to be so black and white, but that's just me.