Gay Rights Poll/Debate

Discussion in 'Every Day Debating' started by Tinuviel, Dec 4, 2003.

?

Are you for gay rights?

  1. yes

    233 vote(s)
    68.5%
  2. no

    68 vote(s)
    20.0%
  3. yes and no

    39 vote(s)
    11.5%
  1. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    This is becoming more of a common issue. I don't see any explanation for this apart from blatant discrimination.

    It is good to see the girl's parents supporting them at least.

    Umm...that's crap.


    So if any girl bringing a boy was found to have brought her actualy BOYFRIEND, they would have been banned too? I doubt that somehow.
     
  2. clouded_perception

    clouded_perception clouded_perception

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    The increased proportion of STIs among the male homosexual population is partly a biological issue, but largely a social one. These things happen when you push a group into having a lot of sex with near-strangers or unsafe sex by delegitimising or even criminalising their orientation. Provided enough of the population isn't stupid bigots, it should sort itself out in a couple of generations.

    In an equal society, homosexuals aren't any more or less promiscuous than heterosexuals or bisexuals. (I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that they're more promiscuous than asexuals, though, 'cause... y'know.) I mean, heterosexuals do group stuff too.
     
  3. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus King Anakin's Royal Advisor, Constantly Around :D

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    Exactly.
     
  4. Kelmourne

    Kelmourne The Savage Hippy

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    [​IMG]

    This pic made me think of this thread.
     
  5. ~Elladan~

    ~Elladan~ A Elbereth Gilthoniel

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  6. Turambar

    Turambar Harebrained Staff Member

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    We had a discussion about that a few pages/months ago...

    The difficulty is that it's very hard to value such a supposed factor. It often appears that we are to believe that such is nigh the only contributing factors - however, I don't quite believe this to be true. Most of these factors will float somewhere between "minimal" and "substantial". But real answers seem to be missing.

    In any case, homosexuality in birds is probably quite something else than in humans.
     
  7. Univerze

    Univerze New Member

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    Well here in the Netherlands gay marriage has been legal for quite some time now, and it's quite normal too. I know some male/male and female/female couples that got married, quite a few of my friends are gay and it would be ridiculous if they wouldn't be allowed to marry the person they love. I consider myself bisexual too, though I have a preference for men, most definitely. I can't see myself really be in a monogamous relationship with a woman.. which is fine by me. I mean, it might be considered normal here when gay couples marry, it's still a brave decision to come out like this. There's hardly any judgment anymore, but it's such a life-altering decision to make..
     
  8. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus King Anakin's Royal Advisor, Constantly Around :D

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    not really. it should not be a huge decision at all in terms of coming out; it's more saddening to think that people have to be in the closet in the first place.
     
  9. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    True.


    But let's hear it for the year 2010AD!!!


     
  10. wanderingmagus

    wanderingmagus King Anakin's Royal Advisor, Constantly Around :D

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    nice! although as far as I know the places are still gender split, right? as opposed to coed, don't know the term.
     
  11. ScreenXSurfer

    ScreenXSurfer Better Than You

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    Women are allowed in the military if that's what you're asking.

    I think there are women bunkers and men bunkers at the same camp though.
     
  12. ciemnika

    ciemnika New Member

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    This is an opinion based on...?
     
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  13. ScreenXSurfer

    ScreenXSurfer Better Than You

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    Oh boy, so many snarky things to say with so many rules against it.
     
  14. Plotspider

    Plotspider New Member

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    I am for people having the right to engage in sexual activities with anyone who willingly accepts the offer and is of proper age (though this is a terribly slippery slope, and at what point people come of proper age is somewhat debatable. I'm for waiting until a person is older. High schoolers should not be having sex).

    What I am not for is people calling people who do not support gay rights 'hate criminals.' In this country, we should have the right not to approve of homosexuality in any way, if that is our choice. But already, in some countries, it is a hate crime to denounce the act of homosexuality. I think the term hate crime is idiotic to begin with, as motives for a crime do not change the nature of the crime. However, that being said, I also think it would be wrong to force a church to perform the marriage of two gay people, if that church believes it is wrong for gays to get married. The government should not force any religious institute to perform any service or rite for any person they do not want to, nor arrest them for refusal of that. Therefore, if gays want to be monogamous and get married by a justice of the peace, whatever. I believe all people who choose to get married should be monogamous, and especially if they have children.
     
  15. Plotspider

    Plotspider New Member

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    Why does it matter in the slightest who you want to spend shore-leave with when you are at war? This is the stupidest debate of them all about gay rights for me. I don't pay my taxes so that there can be a clear distinction between gays and straight in the military. Who the ^&%$ cares? What, are we going to give them pink helmets or something? Why should anyone know what your preferences are? Are we going to allow the gays to be 'fabulous' when on the battlefield? One of the primary things the military attempts to do is create uniformity, so an expression of gay personality vs. straight is out right there. Don't ask don't tell wasn't discrimination, it was "Shut the &^%$ up about who you want to date! We gotta drop a bomb, so we don't care about that stuff." There is no reason this issue should even come up, except for the rare rape case involving two men, which is wrong no matter what, and quite frankly if one of our soldiers can't enforce the no means no policy, then I don't want them at our battlefront.
     
  16. Plotspider

    Plotspider New Member

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    Interesting you should say this. If this is true, heterosexuals doing group stuff should be considered homosexuals, because if you have more than two, you have some homosexual behavior. Therefore, once again, the double standard of this issue is put into play. It's a 'lifestyle choice' in as much as its accepted and tolerated and thought to be heroic. When it is treated with disregard or when denounced by an authoritative group it becomes touted as a 'genetic thing.' So, which is it? A genetic mutation and beyond control, or simply a choice of which wall outlet to plug your plug into? It's probably NOT both, as this would be completely illogical. Personally, I don't say this to be rude or disrespectful or even hateful, but I really wish the gay community would choose which dogma to stand by, so that the rest of the world can figure out how to respond to it.

    We live in a society where people can choose which orientation they want without any sort of legal consequences. Homosexuals are denied only 1 supposed right currently (which filters down into a couple of other things, I know) and that is the right to marry. However, some of them ARE already married, and quite a few don't care about getting married (certainly not all). I certainly agree that homosexuals should be monogamous, as any loving couple should be, not only for their own safety, but for the morals involved as well. I do believe homosexuality is an incorrect choice, but I don't hate homosexuals in any way.
     
  17. Mububban

    Mububban Administrator Staff Member

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    I do agree with this point. When my fiance and I get married, it will be a civil ceremony, not a church wedding, as we are both godless heathens :D
    Although why gay couples would want to get married in a church that specifically says "our god doesn't want you to do this" is beyond me. I'd assume they'd be happy enough being fully, properly married in the eyes of the law.

    I imagine the military accepts that homosexuals will stop bullets the same as straight soldiers, but they were worried about how having an openly gay person in a testosterone-fuelled masculine environment might affect morale.
    On the flipside, I can't think of a better "gay/straight public relations" exercise than gay soldiers showing their straight squad members that they can do the job just as well. That they aren't all mincing queens on a madi gras float, but that they can do the job as well as any straight soldier. For some people, that's the only way they'll ever see a gay person as being equal and, well, "normal."
     
  18. Overread

    Overread Wolfing it up! Staff Member

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    I seem to recall reading that one reason that women were restricted/banned from military service and even when allowed were limited to none-frontline positions was because of moral and control. I forget the study name, but it was found that when male soldiers were fighting and saw fellow female combatants taken down by fire or seriously wounded/crippled that they would lose their discipline and fall back to a more "primal" driven rage against the opponents. This of course breaks a commanders control over their fighters and can of course lead to increase casualties and problems as the unit breaks apart.

    I wonder if this would also be a similar thing for homosexuals on the front line (note that would be for both all male and all female squads) and that the sight of lovers (not just "brothers") might trigger a similar emotional reaction and outburst.
     
  19. ScreenXSurfer

    ScreenXSurfer Better Than You

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    There was a pretty cool quote from Socrates about a homosexual army being the best kind of army. I can't find it though.
     
  20. Sorillon

    Sorillon A Wandering Eye

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