fingolfin verses turamber

Discussion in 'Books' started by byzantine warrior, Sep 30, 2003.

  1. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Fingolfin didnt always remain level headed. Remember that one time he let his rage get the better of him, and he went alone to face Morgoth. Even though its one of the Sil's greatest scenes, and shows just how brave he was, I don't think he thought it out to well. In that event he definently fought with his heart, not his head.
     
  2. Falling_Echo

    Falling_Echo Insert Phrase Here

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    Yes, you do have a point. I was more or less referring to Turambar himself; I am sure Fingolfin would've had the same weakness, but in my opinion, I believe Fingolfin would exploit Turambar's weakness first, due to his experience. Again, the battle could go either way, that's just IMHO.
     
  3. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Turin is an excellent fighter, but I also agree that Fingolfin would wipe the floor with him. After all, Fingolfin has had a good couple of hundred of years experience while Turin could not claim a quarter of that. Still, he did kill Glaurung, the father of Dragons, which was an incrediably awesome feat.
     
  4. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    Death to Morgoth. ;)
     
  5. ondolinde

    ondolinde Most magnificent city

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    First of all, and very importantly, neither would win, for both were great enemies of Morgoth and they would not ever fight against each other.

    That taken aside though, I have read this entire thread and heard a lot of viable arguments as to why one or the other should win (mostly in favor of Fingolfin), but I missed the singlemost important argument.

    I am not sure exactly where it is, but I know there is a prophecy of some sorts hinting at the: "Dagor Dagorlad, the Final Battle and the Breaking and Reshaping of the World".
    In it, it says that Turin will come back from the dead and fight Morgoth together with Tulkas and Eonwe (Don't pin me down on Eonwe and Tulkas, but there were at least 2 Valar there).
    After the Dagor Dagorlad, Turin would be counted among the Valar.

    Now, after careful consideration of all the arguments swaying to Fingolfin or Turin, I could only come to one conclusion. If (and that's a definite impossibility) they were ever to face each other in combat, they would end in a tie.
     
  6. Bard

    Bard Erchamion

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    Samurai vs. knight anyone?
     
  7. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    I have no idea where you got the last sentence from. I have never read that "Turin would be counted among the Valar."

    This prophecy you speak of is the Second Prophecy Of Mandos, and tells about how at the end of the World Melkor will break free and all the peoples of Arda will join forces to fight him in the Dagor Dagorlad (The Battle Of Battles). Feanor will again walk the Earth and fight, and it would be Turin's vengeful stroke that deals the death blow.

    I have never heard that Turin would be accounted among the Valar, do you have any quotes to back this up ?
     
  8. ondolinde

    ondolinde Most magnificent city

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    Unfortunately no, since I don't know where I got it from.
    I can check on it though.
     
  9. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    You do that. I think it would be very weird (albeit cool) for Turin to be counted among the Valar. That is something entirely unheard of. Perhap's it was just an idea he had, and it was written about in HoME, but later discarded ?
     
  10. ondolinde

    ondolinde Most magnificent city

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    Ok, I found that the excerpt in which Turin is counted among the Valar is from Book of Lost Tales 2. It could be a concept later dropped.
     
  11. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    I havent got BOLT 2 yet, so i'll take your word for it. If thats the case, it seems very un-Tolkienly. To count a manamong the Gods. How very strange...
     
  12. ondolinde

    ondolinde Most magnificent city

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    I'll post the complete quote tomorrow in an edit on this one.


    Edit:

    Terribly sorry this took way longer than I had anticipated, I have had a very busy week, so here it is at long last:

    Turambar (Turin) had followed Nienori along the path to the doors of Fui, but Fui would not open to them, neither would Vefantur. Yet the prayers of Urin and Mavwin came to Manwe, and the gods had mercy on their unhappy fate, so that those two Turin and Nienori entered into Fos Almir, the bath of flame, even as Urwendi did in ages past before the first rising of the Sun, and so were all their sorrows washed away, and they dwelt as shining Valar among the blessed ones, and now the love of that brother and sister is very great; and Turambar will stand beside Fionwe in the Great Wrack, and Melko and his drakes shall curse the sword of Mormakil.

    This is a paraphrase from BoLT 2.

    Reference: Book of Lost Tales 2
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2005
  13. CanadianRCist

    CanadianRCist Guest

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    Yeah i agree :)