Fight to the Death

Discussion in 'Polls' started by Turin, Oct 25, 2004.

?

Fight to the Death

  1. Perrin

    3 vote(s)
    6.5%
  2. Mat

    9 vote(s)
    19.6%
  3. Lan

    25 vote(s)
    54.3%
  4. Davram Bashere

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Gaul

    1 vote(s)
    2.2%
  6. Galad

    3 vote(s)
    6.5%
  7. Gawyn

    1 vote(s)
    2.2%
  8. Gareth Byrne

    1 vote(s)
    2.2%
  9. Birgette

    3 vote(s)
    6.5%
  1. Unraveller

    Unraveller <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,128
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    t' hEmerald hOile
    Ratings:
    +62 / 0 / -0
    Lan has been trained by the best in the Borderlands since his cradle. Twenty years ago he took on six at once and lived, even Rand can't do that with the Power to sharpen him. Twenty years ago he beat the best. Sure he's older now but he's got twenty years more experience. Add in the benefits of being a Warder and I say he could take Birgitte. Mat might beat him, but only through his luck.
     
  2. Arya

    Arya New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0
    If you're talking about pure skill alone, Lan wins, hands down.

    Birgitte is an awesome shot - with her silver bow.

    Mat has done extremely well for himself too - but he's Ta'veren and has an amulet that aids him, and of course - the devil's own luck.

    That's my opinion, anyway.
     
  3. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2003
    Messages:
    17,139
    Likes Received:
    150
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +150 / 0 / -0
    I don't think Lan being older really makes much difference considering he's a Warder. Their lifespans are longer and health degeneration is slower. Well atleast that's what I have deduced in a matter of speaking.
     
  4. Vandral

    Vandral Dark One Reborn

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    2,735
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Regina, Sk. Canada.
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    It's a toss up between Mat and Lan. While Lan is exceptional, Mat, going only by the memories buried within him, beat down both Galad and Gawyn. I'd like to see Mat take on Lan for some reason.
     
  5. holly st.Raven

    holly st.Raven Romlux

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    418
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Po
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    The only point here I disagree here is the fact you seem to forget that Birgitte is also a warder. And, as I mentioned it, the only reason Mat would loose to Birgitte is his reluctance to hurt/kill women.

    Oh, and Arya, I find that I have to point that Mat's medalion has no effect in this general conflict, since all it does is blocks (dissipates) the flows that are directly used against him, and none of the other contestants channel.

    And I do not even know why I am trying to get across the point about puting down things logically, when precious few can get rid of their subjectivity when discussing a character.
     
  6. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2003
    Messages:
    17,139
    Likes Received:
    150
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +150 / 0 / -0
    Birgitte has been a Warder for a very short time.

    There's no real "logic" when discussing a fight. A fight is not like an equation. It doesn't have a set answer. There are many variables dependant on the character that tip the scales of who would win.
     
  7. Arya

    Arya New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0
    Agreed 100%. I don't think Birgitte would have been a warder anywhere near long enough to start "slowing".

    Besides of which, she's had absolutely no warder training either. Being a warder isn't that big of a deal in this discussion, in my opinion. There's the slowing, which is the only real benefit - besides the rigorous training, but you don't have to be a warder to have that. There are unbonded Gaidin who fight just as well as some warders do. But even the slowing - it doesn't make you immortal.
     
  8. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,374
    Likes Received:
    230
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ireland
    Ratings:
    +230 / 0 / -0
    I voted Lan. I think Gaul could run him closest actually...remember when he and Perrin beat about 15-20 whitecloaks...and most of that was Gaul.

    Galad's a contender, but Lan wouldn't be afraid to fight dirty if he had to, unlike Galad.

    Mat's a general. He can't use a sword and while he can win a skirmish with his knives he can't fight a full-on battle with them.

    Lords Bryne and Bashere are also generals...we've never seen either's skill with a sword, so not a chance it could be either of them.

    Birgitte fights with a bow. Not that good in close contact situations.

    Perrin's good with an axe, but he hasn't got Lan's training or Mat's memories.

    Gawyn's trained, and must be pretty good, but we've seen nothing to show he's above Lan, Galad or Gaul.
     
  9. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2003
    Messages:
    17,139
    Likes Received:
    150
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +150 / 0 / -0
    You don't realise that Mat can use a quaterstaff with amazing skill (beat both Gawyn and Galad, with minimum effort, whilst recovering and being hungry). Now imagine a metal quaterstaff, he'd probably bludgeon someone to death. Plus he has all those memories, so you don't know if he cannot use a sword. Did you also forget that he has the Ashandari? Seeing his quaterstaff skills, I'm sure he'd probably kill close to everything that tries to attack him, sicne the Ashandari is essentially a Nanginata, and handle in approximately the same manner as a quaterstaff.

    Bashere fought with Rand once, and Rand is technically a blademaster, so that makes Bashere fairly competant, but we can assume he's not on par with Lan and Galad.

    Gawyn's a tit, so he goes out of the window.
     
  10. holly st.Raven

    holly st.Raven Romlux

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    418
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Po
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    Arya, I find myself once again correcting you.

    Aes'sedai slow, as an effect of the oath rod. Warders gain their bonuses simply by being bonded, so lenght has absolutely no effect there.

    And warder training? Heloooooooooooooo, she is Hero of the Horn, one of the greatest wariors ever born. That is what Hero of the Horn acompases.

    And generally speaking Mat is the best one out there, what with his memmories, luck, and being ta'veren on already exceptionall fighting skill. The only reason I put him below Birgitte is, as I repeated n times is because he would not hurt/kill a woman. Without that problem, he would definetly win.

    And Mat, fight is not an equation, true, but logic has great deal to do within it, except if you are a berzerker.
     
  11. Arya

    Arya New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0
    Touche. Disagree respectfully, please.

    I'm well aware of the slowing of the oath rod, however, I do not believe that a warder bonded immediately, suddenly in the blink of an eye will no longer tire as easily, and all the rest of the benefits involved in becoming a warder. I believe there is a reason why some warders are more easily felled than others, and I believe that comes from experience obviously, but also that the benefits of being bonded are enriched the longer you are bonded.

    Hero of the Horn she is, I don't see anybody disputing that. I've seen nothing though to suggest that being Hero of the Horn means she has had extensive training as a Gaidin/Warder. Lan has.

    Yes, this is your opinion. I don't share it, nor do I have to, and I am not "wrong" for disagreeing with you. This is a discussion taking place in a discussion forum regarding a fictional series that none of us here wrote. Therefore all theories and opinions offered are pure speculation and conjecture based on what we know, or what we feel or what we think, or what we have gleaned from what we have read.
     
  12. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2003
    Messages:
    17,139
    Likes Received:
    150
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +150 / 0 / -0
    Holly: Logic is not the same as battle sense. I cannot really define it. If you've been a fight you will know what I mean. A lot of it depends on instinct, and since Mat's memories seem to blend with his instinct naturally (talking to Birgitte in Old Tongue without knowing is an exmaple) is what makes him good. Oh yes Mat won't hurt women if he can help it, but generally in a fight to the death I think he would kill Birgitte.

    As for Heroes of the Horn. I really don't know how they trained, or how they learned their skills, so I won't compare that to warder training.

    Also, I don't remember the oath rod making Aes Sedai slow. I just thought that it was natural for anyone who could use the source. I mean look at those Sisterhood women who were not Aes Sedai, but had lenghty lifespans.
     
  13. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,374
    Likes Received:
    230
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ireland
    Ratings:
    +230 / 0 / -0
    I do realise that Mat can use a quarterstaff with, "amazing skill," however you seem to forget that Galad and Gawyn were underestimating him from the start. They didn't believe he had a chance and by the time they figured that out they were beaten. Do you really think an experienced fighter like Lan would make that kind of mistake? And that applies to him using the ashanderai as a quarterstaff too.

    As for the memories, yes it is possible Mat can fight with a sword. Until we've seen him, however, it's reasonable to assume he can't.

    Out of interest, where is it said that the ashanderai is a naginata rather than an ordinary spear? I know Mat uses it as a quarterstaff on one occasion but I didn't think he generally did.
     
  14. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2003
    Messages:
    17,139
    Likes Received:
    150
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +150 / 0 / -0
    Galad and Gawyn underestimated him yes, but they got over that after the first few hits. Then when they tried, they still got wooped. Plus, no matter how underestimated you are. When you're hungry, recovering from a very weakened condition and taking on two people there is a good chance that he's better.

    I am assuming it is a Naginata because it's described and drawn like one:

    Cover art of WoT:
    [​IMG]

    A Naginata:
    [​IMG]

    Due to the curved blade I would call it rather Naginata rather than a spear, because a spear has a straight blade head.

    Also the way the weapon is shaped, it has to be used in a similar fashion is a quaterstaff, otherwise you're probably using it in an inefficient manner where you'll most likely hurt yourself -.-
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2006
  15. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,374
    Likes Received:
    230
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ireland
    Ratings:
    +230 / 0 / -0
    Not really, by the time Galad had begun to take him seriously, Gawyn was already down (according to Mat himself). Galad fought off a few strokes then, but he was beaten very quickly after that.

    Oh, and Mat finished it quickly because he was weakening, but adrenaline probably carried him far enough. That being said, I'm not going to argue about whether Mat is better than Gawyn and Galad - it's Lan and Gaul I think are best.

    As for the naginata, thanks. :) I couldn't remember if the ashandarei was curved or not, I'm a bit rusty on little things like that.
     
  16. Meteorain

    Meteorain Magical & Mystical

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2003
    Messages:
    17,139
    Likes Received:
    150
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +150 / 0 / -0
    I'm not arguing that Mat is better than Gawyn and Galad...I'm "telling" you :p
     
  17. LyannaWolfBlood

    LyannaWolfBlood Ella Dictadora

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,374
    Likes Received:
    230
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ireland
    Ratings:
    +230 / 0 / -0
    Lol, fair enough Met. :)
     
  18. Cåim

    Cåim Fallen Jedi

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2006
    Messages:
    2,162
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0
    I definetely voted Lan. In the Novel New Spring he took on 5 people with swords and beat them all without getting seriously injured.