Ents or Elves?

Discussion in 'Debates' started by Negrolef, Oct 26, 2005.

  1. Negrolef

    Negrolef New Member

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    Who came first?
     
  2. Negrolef

    Negrolef New Member

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    Ithink that the Ents were first because they were origanilly trees. And the Elves taught the tree to talk which would then make Ents valid to be in the list.
     
  3. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    I cannot quite remember, but I'll check this Sil. for quotes. I believe the Ents came first, however your view seems to be skewed. Where you said "Ents were originally trees," that is wrong. Ents were the Shephards Of the Forest, and its stated in the Silmarillion that Yavanna desired protection for her forests and the other olvar of Middle-Earth. Thus the Ents were made, so we can clearly see that the Ents are not trees, though Treebeard does state that some Ents go "treeish" after a very long time of inactivity.

    As for the actual question, I believe the Ents were probably put onto Middle Earth the same time as the trees, and therefore were before the Elves, but only as far as the grass and trees were before the Elves aswell.

    The Quendi were the first of the "speaking peoples" and as you said, they taught the Ents to talk.
     
  4. Urambo Tauro

    Urambo Tauro Art House Member

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  5. Aife..

    Aife.. Sing to me of yesterday..

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    I believe the Elves came first, for the Elves were called " The First Children . "
    In the Sil. they were mentioned as Eru's likeness and etc.
     
  6. Elan Morin Tedronai

    Elan Morin Tedronai The Forsaken

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    Yes, they were the "Firstborn/Firstchildren" but only Men and Elves are considered Eru's "children," the Dwarves are like his adopted kids, and since the Ents aren't children of Eru, they are more like the children of Yavanna, it shouldn't be counted that the Elves were born first purely by them being known as the "Firstborn," because it only relates to them being awoken before Men.
     
  7. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

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    It seems like I remember reading in the Sil that Yavanna (sp?) put the Ents in middle earth prior to the awakening of the elves.
     
  8. Elkean

    Elkean New Member

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    I thought Yavanna put the Ents on Middle Earth to protect the trees from the dwarves who would've cut them all down (I'll find the quote for this from the Sil). And the dwarves came long after the elves, so the elves came first and before the ents.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2005
  9. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    ents, elves live in forests made up of trees and ents came before trees, pretty logical
     
  10. Gil-Galad_360

    Gil-Galad_360 Aran Noldorin

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    Elkean is right, I remember I have read this myself, don't remember the exact lines, but I remember pretty much the fact
     
  11. Elkean

    Elkean New Member

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    Logic doesn't really play a role in the world of Tolkien. I mean, is it logical that trees can walk and talk? Is it logical that there are elves that live for thousands of years? Is it logical that an entire world is in great toil over a tiny ring? Just something to think about, and I still haven't found the quote but once I do I'll post it.
     
  12. Kakashi

    Kakashi The Fighters Guide House Member

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    alright......
     
  13. Running Wolf

    Running Wolf Join the Madness

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    The elves came over the sea to middle earth, right? (Please correct me, if I'm wrong)
    And they tought the trees to speak so they got ents, right?
    So the elves must have been first.
    But the first of all has been
    Tom Bombadil (is he called like this in English?) ;) ;) ;)
     
  14. warrior_squirrel21

    warrior_squirrel21 blue is my favorite color

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    elves you dips
     
  15. Luther_the_Great

    Luther_the_Great The Amazing

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    I think it is being forgotten that Treebeard is refered to as the Eldest by Galadrial and Celeborn, and Gandalf tells Theoden that when he talks with Treebeard he will have have talked with the eldest of all living things. Treebeard himself says he was there before the elves. I wouldn't look so far back as the Silmarilian its in the Lord of the Rings itself.
     
  16. Gil-Galad_360

    Gil-Galad_360 Aran Noldorin

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  17. Urk the Gurk

    Urk the Gurk Urk the Gurk

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    I have the answer, and it is thus:
    Remember that the dwarves were 'created' by Aule before the elves were, but they were not completed until after the elves. They slept under the earth. Also, animals were created and set to run upon the earth before the elves. So perhaps the Ents, the sheperds of the trees, were created to tend the land and make it ready for the elves... but the ents were not completed, not truly people because they could not talk or reason. The elves taught the 'trees' to talk, and gave them names, and made them people.
    Also, I think ents basicly are trees. They catch fire easy enough, and they hate axes.They become tree-ish as they age. I always thought that the Old Man Willow was basicly a really nasty Ent. Which supports the idea that the Entwives might have moved to the shire.
    Saying ents are trees is like sayin humans are mammels. We are, but that's not the end of it.
     
  18. Mystarian

    Mystarian Magistrate of the Earth

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    I think the Elves, as they were designed by Isultar (? spelling) to be the "Firstborn". I thinks the Ents were created by Yavanna the Earth Lady to protect the forest from Melkor's wrath.
     
  19. Lord Melkor

    Lord Melkor New Member

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    Yes your right

    Ent came first, Yavanna made the to protect the tree from the children of Eru.