elves with beards

Discussion in 'Debates' started by finrod, Oct 8, 2003.

  1. Turin

    Turin Valar Morghulis

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    5,496
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    BFE
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    I think this statement may have already been posted but . . . Much of the Home series, especially the BoLT, was a rough draft. JRRT may have changed his mind at some point.
     
  2. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Trapped in my own dungeon together with a smelly h
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Yes, but the elf beard thing i've posted about was virtually one of the very last things he wrote before he died so I don't think he did change his mind about that.
    Sadly, he was just working on the ''official'' version of tuor and his coming to gondolin when he passed away. I for one, really liked that story and really would like to know what Tolkien would have made of it. But I fear the BoLT version is the only version we'll ever get to know of.
     
  3. byzantine warrior

    byzantine warrior Autokratos Konstantinou

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,121
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Constantinopoli
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0
    Maybe the real cirdan died and this cirdan is a human imposter
     
  4. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Trapped in my own dungeon together with a smelly h
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    yeah, that's right and all the while that big schemer Tolkien probably kept thinking we wouldn't find out.......let's burn his house!
     
  5. byzantine warrior

    byzantine warrior Autokratos Konstantinou

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,121
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Constantinopoli
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0
    yeah grab your torch and pitchforks
     
  6. Lady_of_Shalott

    Lady_of_Shalott Weaving the Magic Web

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    8,237
    Likes Received:
    63
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Ratings:
    +63 / 0 / -0
    So elves can't grow beards, huh? Never really thought about it.
    Interesting.
     
  7. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Trapped in my own dungeon together with a smelly h
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    No, they can't. But even if tolkien hadn't wrote this down
    I would still have a hard time imagine elves wearing beards.
     
  8. aule

    aule The Smithy of the Valar

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Valinor, Aman
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    agreed, that'd just be too strange...
     
  9. Lady_of_Shalott

    Lady_of_Shalott Weaving the Magic Web

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    8,237
    Likes Received:
    63
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Ratings:
    +63 / 0 / -0
    Yeah, I can't see it either. It's a good thing, though, because it sets them even more apart from dwarves and men.

    Imagine Elrond with a Gimli-ish beard... that would just be wrong. Or Legolas with the Aragorn stubble...
     
  10. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Trapped in my own dungeon together with a smelly h
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    no it wouldn't work eh?, for one reason or the other I can't combine the lightfootedness and ethereality that surrounds elves with wearing beards.
     
  11. Lady_of_Shalott

    Lady_of_Shalott Weaving the Magic Web

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    8,237
    Likes Received:
    63
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Ratings:
    +63 / 0 / -0
    I agree. I associate beard with something more rough or gruff, or whatever. The lightness about elves just wouldn't fit it. I wonder if Tolkien decided this right off, if it just happened, or if he decided later on..
     
  12. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Trapped in my own dungeon together with a smelly h
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I was wondering if the whole thing about Cirdan having a beard
    wasn't just a mistake on Tolkien's part.
    After all, he made some known mistakes( very few) but he made them altogether. The lord of the rings and especially the Silmarillion went through alot of changes and new concepts and were virtually six times written over again before hitting the market ( and in some cases even after) maybe Tolkien got mixed up there because I think remember reading somewhere that Tolkien first planned to have some old human guy being the guardian of the grey havens. My opinion is that while changing the humie guy into cirdan, Tolkien forgot to cancel the beard thing
    I just can't imagine Tolkien deliberatly chose to have one of the mightiest elves of middle-earth wearing a beard.
     
  13. Asgath

    Asgath Heavy-metal dwarf

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    905
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Englant
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    It's simple, Cirdan was the only manly Elf around, or the only one who could not afford a razor...
     
  14. Lady_of_Shalott

    Lady_of_Shalott Weaving the Magic Web

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    8,237
    Likes Received:
    63
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Ratings:
    +63 / 0 / -0
    You may be right, Finrod. It is very odd that Cirdan is the only one with a beard. It could be a mistake. I mean with the vast amount of material and ideas floating around, it would be easy to overlook one reference to a beard. But I suppose we'll never really know...
     
  15. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Trapped in my own dungeon together with a smelly h
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I think that is indeed probably it but I fear you're quite right on the 'guess we'll never know thing. sigh.
    That man just died way to soon, I want answers!!!!!!
     
  16. Anduril

    Anduril Flame of the West

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,346
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Oxford, U.K.
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0
    Interesting. Oh well. It's not history. There are bound to be mistakes here and there.

    Someone in the back yells "Anduril you pig! It is SO history."
    Anduril replies, "I know. I'm just in denial."
     
  17. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Trapped in my own dungeon together with a smelly h
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    denial huh?

    don't worry, you'll accept it in time.
     
  18. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Trapped in my own dungeon together with a smelly h
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    we all have
     
  19. jeremiah.l.burns

    jeremiah.l.burns Callo

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,784
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Cheshire, UK
    Ratings:
    +27 / 0 / -0
    Has anyone else noted the striking resemblance between Glorfindel, Legolas, Elrond and ZZ Topp?
     
  20. finrod

    finrod Born to woe.

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Trapped in my own dungeon together with a smelly h
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    hehe, yes the thought struck me once